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Author Topic: Classé Audio DAC-1 Measurements and Subjective Impressions (Mid-90s UltraAnalog)  (Read 3719 times)

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Hands

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A Few Notes

Before I give you my somewhat “finalized” subjective thoughts on the Classé Audio DAC-1, I just want to reiterate for anyone that might not realize that I generally like a smooth, laid-back sound with my audio gear. I seem to fatigue quickly and easily for often unexplainable reasons (could be young age, general hearing sensitivity and tastes, tendency to listen to harsh music and too loudly, gear I have on hand, chronic headaches from sinus congestion and allergies, etc.). Hence why I gravitated to NOS DACs for a while. The Metrums in particular got me involved in the music without setting me on edge, which most sigma-delta or even just most oversampling DACs apparently seem to do.

Also take note that I’m sharing these thoughts after using the DAC-1 with the JKSPDIF Mk3. This converter comes with a 15dB attenuator, which, in theory, reduces signal reflections. I never noticed a huge difference with it either way on other DACs, but it is almost required on the DAC-1 due to how much of a difference it made with the sound. Thus, anything I say could change noticeably if I were to try different gear in my equipment chain. I also only really had the Audio-GD NOS1704 and Yulong DA8 on hand for direct DAC comparisons, and any other thoughts are based purely on potentially faulty memory. Hopefully these notes will help you frame my subjective impressions and point of view when speaking about the Classé Audio DAC-1.

Subjective Listening Impressions and Other Thoughts

There has to be something special about these older DACs and the chips or modules they used back then. It took very little time at all to recognize I was hearing something that just sounded different than what I was used to. My immediate thoughts beyond this were “BIG, 3D sound” and “very detailed across the spectrum.”

Holy crap, does this DAC have kick to it! And it’s clean and quick sounding, too. For example, if you’re a metal fan, this does wonders for double bass kick drumming. Both the NOS1704 and Yulong DA8 sound soft in comparison. More of a rounded “thud” in comparison. The DAC-1 is very dynamic and has lots of punch. It isn’t quite as quick with internal micro-dynamics and shifts as the NOS DACs I’ve heard, but it doesn’t leave me wanting here. As a whole, it is more dynamic. Pretty good sense of blackness as well.

Some folks have said the DAC-1 can be a bit on the cool side of things. That’s hard for me to agree or disagree with. On one hand, it doesn’t have the bass and mid bloom I hear on some other DACs, like the NOS1704 and DA8. Perhaps the DAC-1 could use a bit more warmth for my tastes. I’d probably prefer that. On the other hand, the DAC-1 has a very full-bodied yet clean tone. Nothing really sounds thin or lacking. I think it’s just that it’s quick, clean, and detailed. It’s like the full-bodied tone of a NOS DAC but without the additional warmth and slight mushiness, if that makes sense. It has a good sense of pitch across the board, even in the bass. I suppose you could call it lean but muscly or buff and well defined in the sense it doesn’t have a false sense of warmth but sounds big in size, power, and tone, is impactful, and is detailed/defined in most or all regards.

The DAC-1 also doesn’t seem to have the same sort of grain as something like the DA8. I don’t think it’s quite as smooth and syrupy sounding as the NOS1704, which is probably expected, but detail does seem to flow fairly effortlessly on the DAC-1. It doesn’t bring background details to the forefront in the same way the DA8 does, yet still manages to sound more detailed overall. The DAC-1 seems to be one of the more resolving DACs I’ve tried, and it breezes through complex passages without seeming troubled at all. And even subtle cues aren’t hidden or smoothed. Lots of life and breath to the music. See ms to pull out every little detail, but not necessarily in an exaggerated way.

If anything, for my tastes, the DAC-1 might almost be too detailed. Too precise. Lingering cymbal crashes, for example, have a sort of sparkle, crunch, and/or decay and reverberation to them that makes them sound lifelike and full-bodied, but presented in such a way I’m not really used to from other DACs. And the airy, 3D, almost holographic soundstage makes everything easy to pinpoint and cuts through all the crap (this goes back to the “BIG, 3D sound” comment from earlier).

Yet, I think it’s this ability to dig deep and present seemingly every detail that almost starts to give me information overload, which can to listening fatigue. It’s almost like things become too textured and detailed for my ears to keep up with. However, I still can’t explain exactly what it is that starts to wear on me over time. It’s not like when doing side-by-side comparisons that anything stands out as wrong on the DAC-1. Quite the opposite, it’s more like a breath of fresh air when I switch to it. And a lot of times, the treble presentation seems a bit more laid-back or less in your face than other DACs in back-to-back comparison. More natural. Occasionally not, but usually. Again, very hard to explain. It’s not the sort of fatigue I got from the X-Sabre or other DACs that were either too sharp sounding, too lean, too grainy, etc. Maybe the DAC-1 is just a touch forward with upper-mids and treble. Maybe it’s a bit too powerful or lively sounding for my tastes (i.e. not relaxed or laid-back across the entire spectrum). Maybe I’m hearing some digital hash in some areas, like the cymbals. Very hard for me to say. Perhaps it really is just information overload on my end, as that’s something I experience pretty commonly even outside of audio. I suspect this is just my ears, tastes, and sensitivities being odd, and not something others would notice so much. I’m also still investigating changes to my equipment chain that might suit my needs better. I might just need to pair it with a bunch of laid-back gear. ;) I think these more “negative” thoughts are more a commentary on my tastes and sensitivities, as I’ve said a few times already, so take it as you will. This is coming from the guy that seems to prefer something like the Metrum sound, after all.

Anyway, one other thing I’ve noticed about the DAC-1 is that it seems to be fairly transparent in most regards. It seems to highlight the strengths and weaknesses in my gear more so than any other DAC I’ve tried. It’s more or less the opposite of a NOS DAC in this regard, which seems to just make everything easier to listen to, IMO. This is both a blessing and a curse. Things that sounded good before sound really good now, and things that were on the edge before start to become more annoying to me. Things that sounded bad before sound worse now, but probably in a more accurate way. Differentiating between amps and other gear changes is easier than before. The DAC-1 also doesn’t seem to sugar coat harsh or poorly recorded material. I suppose you could call it very revealing, or perhaps not very forgiving, but not in that sort of sterile or overly analytical way you’d expect. This is why I’m still investigating other gear, even cables, for the DAC-1 to see if I can’t get it sounding more relaxed and more to my tastes.

In a way, I want to describe the DAC-1 as sort of a best of both worlds. It seems to have the sort of precision you get from the PWD or X-Sabre without sacrificing tone, emotion, and musicality. It also just sounds more “real” than the sigma-delta DACs I’ve heard before. While it remains to be seen if I’ll keep it in the end, as I may just settle with the potential need for something very smooth and relaxing (don’t be surprised if this goes up for sale in the next couple months), I do feel like this is one of t he best DACs I’ve heard yet despite having silly sensitive weirdo baby ears and tastes. Maybe I am just not worthy of the awesomeness within the Classé Audio DAC-1. I’m very curious how it would sound with different digital filtering methods, as I’m stuck with the 8x OS implementation for now. Not enough skillz to try modding it for something else like I know some have tried on other DACs. Maybe the upcoming Yggdrasil will be what I’m looking for, as what they’ve said about the filter and time + frequency domain optimization sounds promising. We’ll see.

Upcoming

Measurements coming up next. Same procedure as my most recent DAC measurements, so I’ll spare you those repetitive details for once. Spoiler alert: It measures well for being two decades old and makes you wonder about how far DACs haven’t come since then. I also took some pics of the DAC-1’s internals to share.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2014, 10:01:24 PM by hans030390 »
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Hands

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Classé Audio DAC-1 RightMark Measurements
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2014, 09:23:09 PM »

Given the DAC-1 is limited to no greater than 16/48, that's all I could take for measurements. Surely the DAC-1 won't measure competitively these days with all of the DAC progress that has been made in two decades...right?

A few notes on measurements: Frequency response treble extension seems to have less droop or more extension vs. most other DACs I've tested, save for the PWD Mk1. Noise floor is roughly 3dB higher than, say, the X-Sabre, but still very clean. This could also be due to me living in a different, older house now. It's not a 100% identical measurment environment. Distortion looks great, though I've measured DACs with slightly lower 2nd order HD. Nothing to worry about. Not sure how much the slightly higher noise floor covers up other distortion characteristics, but it looks very clean. The distortion characteristics and distribution above the 24KHz point look interesting (sorta reminds me of some stuff I saw on the Metrums), but if it means anything, I'm not sure. Overall, a DAC with these measurements, minus the 16/48 limitation, could still sell for big bucks these days.

For anyone that cares about how RMAA scores and reports this stuff numerically:

Frequency response (from 40 Hz to 15 kHz), dB   +0.01, -0.06Excellent
Noise level, dB (A)   -94.9Very Good
Dynamic range, dB (A)   94.8Very Good
THD, %   0.0036Very Good
THD + Noise, dB (A)   -84.5Good
IMD + Noise, %   0.0085Very Good
Stereo crosstalk, dB   -94.6Excellent
IMD at 10 kHz, %   0.0014Very Good
General performance    Very Good

Frequency Response:


Noise:


Dynamic Range:


THD:


IMD:


Stereo Crosstalk:


IMD (Swept):
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Classé Audio DAC-1 Various ARTA Measurements
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2014, 09:36:43 PM »

1KHz square wave measurement is about what you'd expect from 8x oversampling, some sort of linear-phase with sharp roll-off I'm guessing (it uses the PMD100, IIRC, and also verified my oscilloscope shows the same looking square wave):



1KHz sine wave at -90.31dB. DAC-1 does show the quantization steps, though not as cleanly and perhaps without quite as much amplitude (perhaps because not outputting 2V?) as I've seen from other DACs. Still a pretty good result:



Jitter results look pretty good from the JKSPDIF Mk3 w/ 15dB attenuator. Spuriae are all quite low, about as good as you can expect from 16-bit, IIRC. No skirting around the signal, and very clean looking overall. And this DAC is two decades old.



13KHz and 14KHz, at 0db (left) and -3dB (right):



19KHz at 0dB (left) and -3dB (right):

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spoony

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Cool!, $$$?
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I'll copy/past something Marv said in the Theta Gen V thread that pertains to this DAC and the question above:

Quote (selected)
Anyways, Stereophile 1999 Recommended Digital Processors. This was before they sold out into Stereophool and added an A+ and A class with a Benchmark DAC1 (yeah the "Benchmark" for limp-dick sigma-delta DAC sound with no plankton but gross detail) in class A:
-Camelot Technology uther v2.0: $2999
-Classe DAC-1: $3995
-dCS Elgar: $12000
-dCS 972 digital to digital converter: $6995
-Mark Levinson No.30.5: $15950
-Meridian 518: $1950
-Muse Model 296: $3000
-Spectral SDR-2000 Professional: $8895 $$$
-Theta DS Pro Generation V-A: $3795
-Wadia 27ix: $8950 $$$

I picked mine up recently on eBay for ~$1.1K, though I'm not sure what they normally go for. I've seen some mention as low as ~$850, and I saw a previous listing for around $1.2K, so in the $1K ballpark range. I can easily see why it made Stereophile's list back then.
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Super clean inside:



To emphasize how big this thing is, I put my Leckerton UHA-6SMk2 inside it.

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great work!
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SPDIF input rejection is simply fabulous. For those wondering how does 16 bit look like at -90dbFS, compare this and the above measurement.

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I'm beginning to understand Marv's rant on HF today about modern versus vintage DACs.
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Yes, these vintage DACs are no joke. I'm thinking about it more and more and might try to pursue a NOS DAC based on something like the AD1862, 1865, TDA1541A, PCM6x/5x or similar...I'd be curious to see if someone could rig this UltraAnalog module up in NOS mode. Seems most of those chips I mentioned have fairly good specs, not to far off from the 1704 (which had much better measurable characteristics vs. whatever chips Metrum uses), but subjective reports from various individuals and sources make me think they'll sound better than the 1704. I could see that working out really well for my tastes. So, don't be surprised if the DAC-1 goes up for sale, as I think I'm just a NOS guy (sorry to disappoint some folks) but want to keep the goodness these vintage chips seem like they might bring to the table.
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