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Author Topic: Best Amps for Sennheiser HD800  (Read 100596 times)

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DubiousMike

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Re: Best Amps for Sennheiser HD800
« Reply #590 on: September 15, 2015, 07:16:33 PM »

Valhalla 2 has a toggle between 3.5 ohms and 14 ohms according to the manual, which is actually a fraction of the output impedance on most OTL's.  Schiit is using negative feedback to bring it down, which has its pros and cons. 

The output impedance issue is an interesting one.  Marv gets into this in one of my favorite changstar threads: http://www.changstar.com/index.php?topic=90.0  In a nutshell, due to the spike on the hd800's impedance curve, the headphone gets a mid-bass boost that varies directly with the output impedance of the amp.  The link has some cool graphs showing this with impedance adapters.  But you are sacrificing bass tightness/damping for mid-bass amplitude when you increase amp output impedance.  I tend to agree with other pyrates that I don't love the sound of hd800's bass with too much output impedance.  Nor do I like it with ~0 ohm outs.  The low setting on my mainline (a nominal 16 ohm tap, but actually < 10 ohm out, as opposed to the higher 32 ohm tap) seems about ideal to me with most music.   

Lack of voltage swing on a 0-1 ohm pocket amp like the O2 probably does contribute to disappointing bass response for hd800's.  (I loath this combo even with the agdr booster in my O2).  That said, I suspect most decently designed desktop amps have adequate voltage swing such that power is not really an issue. 
« Last Edit: September 16, 2015, 08:29:51 PM by DubiousMike »
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jacal01

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Re: Best Amps for Sennheiser HD800
« Reply #591 on: September 16, 2015, 02:15:17 PM »

Unless there has been a drastic change to the questyle in the last year and a half or so since I stopped paying attention to it, it isn't a current mode amp in the same way the bakoon is. The bakoon uses current mode output, the questyle just uses current gain, it uses a standard voltage output.

You are correct.  The Questyle uses current controlled signal amplification, but with conventional voltage I/O so as to maximize the amp's interconnect compatibility with the bulk of 3rd party audio gear, according to them.  The Bakoon has both current and voltage controlled outputs, with the preponderance of use with the current mode I/O, the so-called SATRI current interconnects, much like the Krell CAST interconnect system.

But the Bakoon amp amplification is also 'SATRI' circuitry, employing no negative feedback and current controlled signal, according to a Akira Nagai interview, so in any event, it utilizes a unique topology.

Current controlled signal amplification ostensibly yields industry best minimum TIMD, as well as clarity, resolution and rapid transient response, while current controlled output eliminates impedance imbalance distortion in the transmitted signal.   
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Priidik

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Re: Best Amps for Sennheiser HD800
« Reply #592 on: September 17, 2015, 08:03:41 PM »

Hands and Anax: How's Teton vs ZD Super  :)p17 ?
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Anaxilus

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Re: Best Amps for Sennheiser HD800
« Reply #593 on: September 17, 2015, 08:58:04 PM »

Hands and Anax: How's Teton vs ZD Super  :)p17 ?

I couldn't say directly because there was no ZDS there and a lot of the gear and tube selection was unfamiliar to me with the Teton. All I can say is they are both good amps, but that's about it. Both have a good sense of clarity. As far as resolution, soundstage, dynamics, I can't say for sure. Based on price, I certainly didn't "feel" the ZDS as configured at Wikia was inferior or would get crushed or "lose" out to the Teton.
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Thenewdude007

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Re: Best Amps for Sennheiser HD800
« Reply #594 on: September 19, 2015, 06:12:58 PM »

Don't mean to pester you guys for opinions, but the a lot of the higher end priced amps I am looking at are discontinued & only appear in the classified ever so often. I'm waiting for the Super 7 or maybe the Sonnett 2 whenever they get put back on the used market. In the mean time I'm looking for an alternative & the Luxman P-1u has been recommended very favorably.

BUT can anyone refute project86's claims of the $800 Violectric V200 & the $300 Matrix M Stage being almost as good as the $2,000 Luxman P-1u?


From  project86
http://www.head-fi.org/t/551173/review-violectric-hpa-v200-amp
Quote (selected)
The V200 edges itself up a little higher than that. In fact, I believe I could get rid of my Luxman P-1u and not miss it much. The V200 is just that good.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/475618/matrix-m-stage-amp-review-simple-cheap-and-excellent
Quote (selected)
"The M-Stage seems particularly well mated with the HD800, in fact it performs nearly on par with the Luxman (more on that later)."

"There are no glaring shortcomings obvious on the M-Stage compared to the Luxman. It is more a case of being outperformed in every area by a small but significant margin"

"The exception is with the HD800s. The M-Stage is very close to being equal to the Luxman when using the HD800s, lacking just a tiny bit of control in the lower register as well as having slightly inferior attack and decay, again mostly noticeable on strings. To come so close with such a low price is truly remarkable and if I hadn’t heard it myself I probably wouldn’t believe it."


I basically never read any recent reviews praising them that much, let alone comparing them favorably to the Luxman.
There doesn't seem to be a lot of love for the V200 in here & the M-Stage seems to have been regulated behind the Valhalla 2 & Vali amps.

From all the reviews I read on the Luxman, it brought out the mid-range and mid-bass, as well as keeping a large soundstage. That is what I want from the HD800.
Can anyone who audition any of these amps pitch in?
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Anaxilus

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Re: Best Amps for Sennheiser HD800
« Reply #595 on: September 19, 2015, 07:07:51 PM »

Can't say I'd refute that. Luxman sounds pretty boring and flat (dynamically) sounding too, a little too warm and unresolved for my tastes. It does essentially remind me of a slightly better sounding Violectric v200.

Where we disagree is whether they sound good. The HD800 deserves better but whatever floats your boat.

Is there something in the HD800 you like you can't find in another headphone?
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"If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading." - Lao Tzu

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Thenewdude007

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Re: Best Amps for Sennheiser HD800
« Reply #596 on: September 19, 2015, 10:15:29 PM »

Can't say I'd refute that. Luxman sounds pretty boring and flat (dynamically) sounding too, a little too warm and unresolved for my tastes. It does essentially remind me of a slightly better sounding Violectric v200.

Where we disagree is whether they sound good. The HD800 deserves better but whatever floats your boat.

Is there something in the HD800 you like you can't find in another headphone?

I'm listening to it right now, even without the mod, it sounds ****ing good.
But when I take out my LCD-2 & listen to the exact same song, there is no doubt the mid-upper bass & mids sound (recessed by not be the right word) diffused & thin on the HD800 by a long shot. I read plenty of reviews saying the same thing, so I know I'm not crazy.


Makes me second guess every song on how it is supposed to be played.
If I can get the upper bass & mids to tighten up, maybe brought forward a bit, then I wouldn't be so reluctant to go back to the LCD-2.

If I never owned the LCD-2 I would never be mentioning any of this. The HD800 smacks my other headphones I had across the board.
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Thenewdude007

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Re: Best Amps for Sennheiser HD800
« Reply #597 on: September 19, 2015, 11:10:08 PM »

Had the Bottlehead Crack & if I get the Matrix-M Stage, Valhalla 2 or Vali, I feel that would just be a side-grading & not a true upgrade from the Crack.

On the amps I researched for maybe the past month+ for my $1,200-ish budget, reading through hundreds of pages from dozens of review, impression & comparison threads, I narrowed it down to:

Tube amps:

DNA Sonnett 2, no one has anything bad to say about this, other than that there are better/more expensive amps available. If I see it in the classified again, I might pull the trigger.

EC Super 7, the go to amp for the HD800 under $2,000(?), but I couldn't even find proof that it was put up for sale by anyone in the past 3 years. Not getting this, unless I want to wait it out a long time.

WooAudio WA2, tube-ish sound, warm & smooth, sounds like a tube version of the V200 & apparently has the same weaknesses. I did read from someone that they actual have very different sound signature (was not reiterated further).

Decware CSP2+ & CSP3, highly regarded, but I couldn't find any concrete comparisons with other tube amps or with the HD800.


Solid State Amps:

Auralic Taurus MKII, overall had nothing bad said about it. Seemingly better than the Luxman P-1u & the other solid state amps minus the Black Widow (no comparisons were ever made).

EC Black Widow, one person here vouched for it & was very enthusiastic about it. The only critical comment I found about it vs any other higher end solid state amps was from the Innerfidelity Big Sound shoot out. One of the contestants said the BW made the HD800 sound constricted.

Luxman P1u, besides lacking the transparency & speed of more newer amps, it has been showered with praise from every read. I liked the comments that it does bring out the bass & midrange on the HD800. Though I'm not exactly 100% sure how big of a jump it really is versus the under $1,000 budget amps.

Sennhesier HDVD600, Purrin/Marvey liked it, but impressions from other people said it lacked musicality, being too neutral, lacked bass.

GS-X Mk2, one of the best reviewed amps, but a few people said it being on the bright & analytical side. Not something I'm looking to pair with the HD800.

Violectric V200,  described as having a small closed in soundstage, overtly colored sound, smeared details. At the same time it was mentioned as being neutral, really bringing out the bass/mids & taming any perceived brightness.
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jexby

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Re: Best Amps for Sennheiser HD800
« Reply #598 on: September 20, 2015, 12:20:04 AM »

1. EC Super 7
There was one (un modded) for sale of HF within the last month.
(I will rob Mister R's house for his modded Super 7 before Hands even gets off his couch.)

2. EC Black Widow
Only one vouched for it?
Hands liked it for his listening and others have called it the best SS amp for HD800 under $1500.

Me?
I listen to Yggy to BW to un modded HD800 nightly.
am only awaiting Amax mod v3.0.
 :)p1

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kothganesh

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Re: Best Amps for Sennheiser HD800
« Reply #599 on: September 20, 2015, 02:13:21 AM »

I will vouch for the BW but want to know why the ZD Super is not getting the attention it truly deserves.
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