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Author Topic: Best Amps for Sennheiser HD800  (Read 100596 times)

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JeremiahS

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Re: Best Amps for Sennheiser HD800
« Reply #560 on: September 06, 2015, 11:27:56 AM »

^Not yet for me, but I have heard good things about the L-2 and want to hear it sometime.  You might wanna pick one up and try it, you may like it better than B22 for HD800 after yours is built.  I didn't like the B22/HD800 pairing.

Tari is the first person that comes to mind. You can read some of his thoughts here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/661233/ecp-audio-dsha-1-l-2-black-diamond, or PM him here at Changstar. Short version: supposed to be pretty good.

All the ECP Audio amps are limited production runs, which makes them really hard to get.

Theoretically, you can build one yourself since the boards are online. Just need a PSU.

https://squareup.com/market/ecp-consolidated-productions-llc

Hi CEE TEE, aufmerksam, and No_One411,

Thank you for your thoughtful response.

I didn't know the amp has been discontinued so this is not a practical option...

I am curious about tube headphone amp because it supposedly brings the best out of the HD800 better than SS am I correct?

It is just that I have two young daughters so I'm scared for a potential accident so something small that I can tuck away safely will be ideal. I hope this new Torpedo 3 has a small footprint like the L-2.

For SS, I am pretty confident with the Beta 22. I still prefer its sound than GS-X MK2, Taurus MK2, Master 9 or super-simetri Dynalo.

I'm seconding HitmanFluffy's question. I am curious how the L-2 compare against traditional tube amps like Eddie Current or Donald North Audio designs.

Regards,
Jeremiah
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songmic

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Re: Best Amps for Sennheiser HD800
« Reply #561 on: September 06, 2015, 02:07:08 PM »

Hi CEE TEE, aufmerksam, and No_One411,

Thank you for your thoughtful response.

I didn't know the amp has been discontinued so this is not a practical option...

I am curious about tube headphone amp because it supposedly brings the best out of the HD800 better than SS am I correct?

It is just that I have two young daughters so I'm scared for a potential accident so something small that I can tuck away safely will be ideal. I hope this new Torpedo 3 has a small footprint like the L-2.

For SS, I am pretty confident with the Beta 22. I still prefer its sound than GS-X MK2, Taurus MK2, Master 9 or super-simetri Dynalo.

I'm seconding HitmanFluffy's question. I am curious how the L-2 compare against traditional tube amps like Eddie Current or Donald North Audio designs.

Regards,
Jeremiah

I currently own the L-2 and use it to drive my HD650 as well as HD800. Perhaps I could be of some help.

First of all, I don't agree with the general notion that tube brings the best out of HD800 better than SS. It's a matter of implementation, after all. That being said, the L-2 is the best tube amp with the HD800 I've heard to date. It is one of the few amps that takes the otherwise treble hot edge off the HD800 without compromising its imaging/resolution, while offering a very clean black background and superb soundstage. The L-2 is not a typical tube amp, it is a parafeed hybrid amp that is also unique from the typical so-called hybrid amps with tube input/gain stage and analog output stage.

Both the L-2 and Torpedo have their tubes mostly inside the chassis with only the top coming out, kinda like a Schiit Lyr/Mjolnir 2. I don't think you really have to worry about a potential accident as much as a SS amp.

Now, I haven't done a direct comparison between L-2 and DNA Stratus but I preferred the L-2 quite more. Not sure how it would stack up against the upcoming Solaris. As for Eddie Current, I used to own the Zana Deux SE but the L-2 is superior to it in almost every way. However, the newly updated Zana Deux Super, which is supposedly a significant upgrade as Anax have pointed out, might be just as good if not better than the L-2.

The L-2 is discontinued, so you're right, it's not a practical option. I was very lucky to find a used one in good condition for sale. However, ecp audio is currently working on some new amps that you might be interested in. Why don't you contact Doug for more info?
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Source: Waversa Systems W SmartHub, Schiit Yggdrasil
Amp: ecp audio L-2 & PS2
Headphone: Sennheiser HD650 & HD800

Rotijon

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Re: Best Amps for Sennheiser HD800
« Reply #562 on: September 06, 2015, 03:17:16 PM »

I emailed Doug about it, he mentioned the nickel OPTs and Lundahl input transformers plus V-cap parafeed caps cost about $650 alone. He told me the new Torpedo 3 he has lined up with a new set of Cinemag OPTs is competitive with the L2, and much cheaper to put together.

That DSHA-2 does indeed look very interesting, and possibly more affordable.

To the other pyrates who might know, how does the L2 stack up technicalities-wise compared to say the DSHA-1 and the big boy ECs?

Thew new DSHA is quoted at 2.3k USD at head-case by Doug.
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ericfarrell85

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Re: Best Amps for Sennheiser HD800
« Reply #563 on: September 06, 2015, 03:26:28 PM »


For SS, I am pretty confident with the Beta 22. I still prefer its sound than GS-X MK2, Taurus MK2, Master 9 or super-simetri Dynalo.


Beta's are funny that way, as you find wide disparities in opinions. The 4CH Beta I used to own was nice with the HD800's. It was powerful, with excellent transients, a very wide stage and exceptionally smooth. The bass was powerful, but a little bloomy (which works for the HD800). Other people, with obviously different builds, find their Beta's sharp and sibilant. Others still, have called it aggressive, where I found it to be powerful, but laid back somewhat. Just bear in mind that when people talk about the Beta, they are referring to a specific build, which is not necessarily representative of your own build.
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DubiousMike

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Re: Best Amps for Sennheiser HD800
« Reply #564 on: September 06, 2015, 09:27:01 PM »

....The L-2 is not a typical tube amp, it is a parafeed hybrid amp that is also unique from the typical so-called hybrid amps with tube input/gain stage and analog output stage.

L-2 is a beautifully made spud amp, for sure, with great quality components.  One minor possible clarification to the above, it is not as I understand it, strictly speaking, a hybrid as that term is typically used, because we are talking about a single gain stage tube amp.  But like other quality parafeed designs, Doug/ECP does use some sophisticated SS components to load the plates with constant current, etc. 

Doc B (Bottlehead) actually originated the first parafeed amp in his basement back in 2003, and there is a pretty cool interchange between Doc and Doug about the evolution of this design over on HF: http://www.head-fi.org/t/683012/bottlehead-amplifier-discussion-comparison-thread-crack-sex-mainline/735#post_10604677  The mainline kit is bottlehead's current implementation of this topology, with a couple of twists.  The torpedo is ECP's more budget minded version.  In the five figure range, the parafeed topology is is also used in bottlehead's new prebuilt statement amp.   

Doug has also posted a really nice article on parafeed design for those who are so inclined: http://diy.ecpaudio.com/p/parafeed-tutorial.html 
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CEE TEE

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Re: Best Amps for Sennheiser HD800
« Reply #565 on: September 06, 2015, 10:32:10 PM »

^Thanks, Eric for mentioning that B22 builds will differ...I haven't heard different builds enough to understand the spectrum. 


Jeremiah, besides the nice recommendations here and options already stated- not a tube amp, but you might consider trying the EC solid state amp Black Widow in comparison to your B22 and keep the one that wins that battle.  Not far off in pricing from a proper L-2 if you find one for sale and it is SS without the harshness/etch, or dullness, or v-shape that some SS amps have.  An idea for later if other exploration doesn't pan out.
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Arnotts

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Re: Best Amps for Sennheiser HD800
« Reply #566 on: September 07, 2015, 03:19:02 PM »

Currently got the Gumby combined with the Valhalla 2 for HD800's (stock, but will do the Anax 2.0 mod in the next couple of weeks) and HD650's. I've also got the Cavalli Liquid Carbon on order, so I can have a balanced amp for the Gumby that will work well with all of my headphones.

I'm most interested in seeing how well the LC does compared to the Val2 for the Senn's.
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JeremiahS

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Re: Best Amps for Sennheiser HD800
« Reply #567 on: September 07, 2015, 06:35:47 PM »

I currently own the L-2 and use it to drive my HD650 as well as HD800. Perhaps I could be of some help.

First of all, I don't agree with the general notion that tube brings the best out of HD800 better than SS. It's a matter of implementation, after all. That being said, the L-2 is the best tube amp with the HD800 I've heard to date. It is one of the few amps that takes the otherwise treble hot edge off the HD800 without compromising its imaging/resolution, while offering a very clean black background and superb soundstage. The L-2 is not a typical tube amp, it is a parafeed hybrid amp that is also unique from the typical so-called hybrid amps with tube input/gain stage and analog output stage.

Both the L-2 and Torpedo have their tubes mostly inside the chassis with only the top coming out, kinda like a Schiit Lyr/Mjolnir 2. I don't think you really have to worry about a potential accident as much as a SS amp.

Now, I haven't done a direct comparison between L-2 and DNA Stratus but I preferred the L-2 quite more. Not sure how it would stack up against the upcoming Solaris. As for Eddie Current, I used to own the Zana Deux SE but the L-2 is superior to it in almost every way. However, the newly updated Zana Deux Super, which is supposedly a significant upgrade as Anax have pointed out, might be just as good if not better than the L-2.

The L-2 is discontinued, so you're right, it's not a practical option. I was very lucky to find a used one in good condition for sale. However, ecp audio is currently working on some new amps that you might be interested in. Why don't you contact Doug for more info?

Beta's are funny that way, as you find wide disparities in opinions. The 4CH Beta I used to own was nice with the HD800's. It was powerful, with excellent transients, a very wide stage and exceptionally smooth. The bass was powerful, but a little bloomy (which works for the HD800). Other people, with obviously different builds, find their Beta's sharp and sibilant. Others still, have called it aggressive, where I found it to be powerful, but laid back somewhat. Just bear in mind that when people talk about the Beta, they are referring to a specific build, which is not necessarily representative of your own build.



^Thanks, Eric for mentioning that B22 builds will differ...I haven't heard different builds enough to understand the spectrum. 


Jeremiah, besides the nice recommendations here and options already stated- not a tube amp, but you might consider trying the EC solid state amp Black Widow in comparison to your B22 and keep the one that wins that battle.  Not far off in pricing from a proper L-2 if you find one for sale and it is SS without the harshness/etch, or dullness, or v-shape that some SS amps have.  An idea for later if other exploration doesn't pan out.

Hi songmic, ericfarrell85 and CEE TEE,

Thank you for your kind advise, I really appreciate it.

I think the best course of action for now is to wait until Torpedo 3 is fina lized then decide what I want to do next. The good thing is it's DIY so that should be cheaper than Doug's commercial amps.

To be honest the DNA Stratus is also interesting me because it's just so pretty. :D

As for the Beta 22, I really like it and I think ericfarrell85 explain the sound much better than I did. The one that I auditioned is also a 4-channel build and I think come with AMB ladder volume control. It's too big though so I'm doing a simpler 2-channel build but in true dual-mono configuration.

I'm curious about the Black Widow as well because I read CEE TEE's observation and it seems that it has tube-like smoothness so in a way it should share some characteristics with the Beta 22. A shootout is a good idea and something I will consider.

Still it's sad to see how many of the newer solid-state amps just sound so unnaturally bright.

Regards,
Jeremiah
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PortentOfTheApparatus

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Re: Best Amps for Sennheiser HD800
« Reply #568 on: September 08, 2015, 03:19:25 AM »

If you want to try and snag an ECP L-2, it looks like there is one for sale on Head-Fi:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/737754/ic-ecp-l-2-production-model

Many moons ago I owned an ECP Black Diamond to accompany the HD800

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kothganesh

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Re: Best Amps for Sennheiser HD800
« Reply #569 on: September 08, 2015, 04:23:13 AM »

Among the amps I own, I believe the ZD Super to be the best amp for the HD 800 (with the Anax 2.0 mod). When I got my BW (three days ago) I was taken aback (pleasantly so) as to how close it was to the ZDS. I hear the ZDS as being a bit more spacious and digs a bit deeper into the bottom end by comparison. However, the BW is very very good on its own and easily the best SS amp that I have heard thus far.
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