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Author Topic: Best Amps for Sennheiser HD800  (Read 100596 times)

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punit

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Re: Best Amps for Sennheiser HD800
« Reply #60 on: October 14, 2014, 04:59:50 PM »

Ah.. you are talking about products that sound like POS to begin with. Clear now.
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Anaxilus

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Re: Best Amps for Sennheiser HD800
« Reply #61 on: October 14, 2014, 06:05:13 PM »

To be honest, I am not that kind of people who can describe the sound very accurately. So I cannot give any useful comment here just some personal impression.

I think I am the one of the only two that have both 445 and Teton at the moment. I would say after you invest on the tubes, the cost of both are similar. For 445, you usually have to invest 600-1300usd on quad 45 tubes depends on your choice, and 200-300usd on WE417A. For Teton, previously I thought I need lots of fuking crazy NOS tubes on Teton to make it sing, but after I tried all those famous 5U4, 6SN7, 6080 tubes, I am so fuking frustrating. They do not make any huge difference. Maybe it is the problem with my ear, lol. So the cost of tube investment on Teton is around 200usd-????usd depends on how crazy you are. Please do not laugh at me, I invested more than 2000usd on those fuking NOS tubes like U52, WE422A, WE421A, GEC 6AS7G, etc.

I received Teton first ant then 445, I would say those two amps are quite similar to my ears. Just I am the guy that prefer the front presentation(not necessarily lean or harsh) so Teton makes me like HD800 even more. I would say 445 is a fuking versatile and neutral amp, it works great with almost every headphone except HE6. For Teton, I was using WE421A at first, I tried my LCD-3F on my Teton, I was shocked, they worked together like crap. I thought LCD-3F has enough impedance to use on WE421A, but I was wrong. I was so confused about innerfidelity Skylab's review. He only used LCD-3(F?) on Teton, and Tung Sol 2399. But Tung-sol 2399 is equivalent to WE421A if I was not wrong. But this combo is really awful because of the high output impedance on Tung Sol 2399. I also tried Grado and other low-z headphones with Teton and WE421A, but they do not work well either. I then used Raytheon 6528 on the power tube, man, something magic happened, with 6528, Teton is a fuking remarkable amp with low-z headphones even Grado. And the more ridiculous thing is that, 6528 only costs 40usd, but my WE421A costs around 400usd.....I am fuked.

I do not want to talk about 445 in details since lots of people have already talked a lot about this great amp. I would say either one is great match with HD800 and absolutely not fatiguing. They might sound less warm than your current amp with HD800, but I think HI-FI should be more about reproduction of the music not coloration. I do not care about whether an amp is listenable or not, I just want to hear what the music is truly alike. Both amps are fairly neutral especially 445.

I also tried my ECP Black Diamond on Lampi B7, holy schiit, it works so well with HD800. I love the combo, very enjoyable and enough for any casual listening. Just cannot justify myself having so many amps at the moment.

Forgot to say, I tried both amp on my Lampi B7, which is supposed to be a smooth analog sounding DAC.

Thx for the impressions.  This should serve as public notice to those interested in tube amps and those who read reviews of tube amps.  You really have to know what you are listening to and what the reviewer is listening to.  Without experimentation or experience, a tube amp's circuit can not be judged in a vacuum like a SS amp.  People make judgments about tube amps all the time when they are just judging the current tube selection and its state of degradation or even their own upstream gear for the first time.  Like the guy who used a PWT transport with his 445.  Please...
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chengka7

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Re: Best Amps for Sennheiser HD800
« Reply #62 on: October 15, 2014, 12:06:19 AM »

BTW, Marv, you can ask Todd to lend you his Teton, it is available for loan program right now from TTVJ
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Maxvla

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Re: Best Amps for Sennheiser HD800
« Reply #63 on: October 15, 2014, 04:11:42 AM »

Not sure I'd want to pay shipping on a big heavy $5000 item just for a short demo.
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Marvey

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Re: Best Amps for Sennheiser HD800
« Reply #64 on: October 15, 2014, 05:09:29 PM »

BTW, Marv, you can ask Todd to lend you his Teton, it is available for loan program right now from TTVJ

One of the Pyrates is working on this. Thanks for your impressions. I can certainly see the synergy between HD800 and Teton.
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Mars73

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Re: Best Amps for Sennheiser HD800
« Reply #65 on: October 16, 2014, 08:43:56 AM »

To be honest, I am not that kind of people who can describe the sound very accurately. So I cannot give any useful comment here just some personal impression.

I think I am the one of the only two that have both 445 and Teton at the moment. I would say after you invest on the tubes, the cost of both are similar. For 445, you usually have to invest 600-1300usd on quad 45 tubes depends on your choice, and 200-300usd on WE417A. For Teton, previously I thought I need lots of fuking crazy NOS tubes on Teton to make it sing, but after I tried all those famous 5U4, 6SN7, 6080 tubes, I am so fuking frustrating. They do not make any huge difference. Maybe it is the problem with my ear, lol. So the cost of tube investment on Teton is around 200usd-????usd depends on how crazy you are. Please do not laugh at me, I invested more than 2000usd on those fuking NOS tubes like U52, WE422A, WE421A, GEC 6AS7G, etc.

I received Teton first ant then 445, I would say those two amps are quite similar to my ears. Just I am the guy that prefer the front presentation(not necessarily lean or harsh) so Teton makes me like HD800 even more. I would say 445 is a fuking versatile and neutral amp, it works great with almost every headphone except HE6. For Teton, I was using WE421A at first, I tried my LCD-3F on my Teton, I was shocked, they worked together like crap. I thought LCD-3F has enough impedance to use on WE421A, but I was wrong. I was so confused about innerfidelity Skylab's review. He only used LCD-3(F?) on Teton, and Tung Sol 2399. But Tung-sol 2399 is equivalent to WE421A if I was not wrong. But this combo is really awful because of the high output impedance on Tung Sol 2399. I also tried Grado and other low-z headphones with Teton and WE421A, but they do not work well either. I then used Raytheon 6528 on the power tube, man, something magic happened, with 6528, Teton is a fuking remarkable amp with low-z headphones even Grado. And the more ridiculous thing is that, 6528 only costs 40usd, but my WE421A costs around 400usd.....I am fuked.

I do not want to talk about 445 in details since lots of people have already talked a lot about this great amp. I would say either one is great match with HD800 and absolutely not fatiguing. They might sound less warm than your current amp with HD800, but I think HI-FI should be more about reproduction of the music not coloration. I do not care about whether an amp is listenable or not, I just want to hear what the music is truly alike. Both amps are fairly neutral especially 445.

I also tried my ECP Black Diamond on Lampi B7, holy schiit, it works so well with HD800. I love the combo, very enjoyable and enough for any casual listening. Just cannot justify myself having so many amps at the moment.

Forgot to say, I tried both amp on my Lampi B7, which is supposed to be a smooth analog sounding DAC.

Hi chengka,

I am seriously contemplating getting the Apex Teton as the HD800 is my only headphone (at the moment anyway).

Would you be able to share which tubes in the Teton, in particular the rectifier and output tube, pairs better with the HD800? I'm worried about spending a fortune getting the 'wrong' tubes e.g. WE421A.

I'm looking for a tonal rich sound with good speed. Staging is less important to me since I find that I very much prefer speakers for that.

Thanks!
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Mars73

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Re: Best Amps for Sennheiser HD800
« Reply #66 on: October 16, 2014, 08:49:56 AM »

BTW, Marv, you can ask Todd to lend you his Teton, it is available for loan program right now from TTVJ

One of the Pyrates is working on this. Thanks for your impressions. I can certainly see the synergy between HD800 and Teton.

Hi marvey,

Based on your experience, which amp would you recommend for an unmodded HD800: Teton, Stratus or ECBA / EC 445? Tonal richness, density, transparency and good pace are important to me.

I'm forced to make a blind purchase and am trying to avoid a fortune in shipping charges, not to mention taking a hit on reselling, if I don't like the amp.

Thanks!
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Marvey

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Re: Best Amps for Sennheiser HD800
« Reply #67 on: October 16, 2014, 05:26:48 PM »

Hard to say because the amps all have their own flavor and I don't know of your preferences. What are you currently using. What is your setup? What would you like better from your existing setup? What bugs you?

I have a love / hate thing with the HD800... but there it goes:

Since stage isn't important, you want to run unmodded HD800, and you prefer more dense tone, I would eliminate 4-45. It is the most "solid-state" tube amp in the lineup.

This now leaves you with BA, Stratus, and Teton. Now the BA can be made with 300B or 2A3 version which opens up a lot of doors for tuning the sound. There are also a ton of 2A3 types, including some very good new production tubes. And as Chengka said above, also lots of great cheap tubes for Teton. BA will probably be most solid-state sounding of these three with the best pace. The others are more tubey. The Teton is OTL with more distinct coloration with HD800 (more bassier / punch) because of high output impedance of 50ohms. One of the guys here is getting a Teton in, so maybe wait until we can get a more direct comparison?
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Mars73

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Re: Best Amps for Sennheiser HD800
« Reply #68 on: October 17, 2014, 07:56:30 AM »

Hard to say because the amps all have their own flavor and I don't know of your preferences. What are you currently using. What is your setup? What would you like better from your existing setup? What bugs you?

I have a love / hate thing with the HD800... but there it goes:

Since stage isn't important, you want to run unmodded HD800, and you prefer more dense tone, I would eliminate 4-45. It is the most "solid-state" tube amp in the lineup.

This now leaves you with BA, Stratus, and Teton. Now the BA can be made with 300B or 2A3 version which opens up a lot of doors for tuning the sound. There are also a ton of 2A3 types, including some very good new production tubes. And as Chengka said above, also lots of great cheap tubes for Teton. BA will probably be most solid-state sounding of these three with the best pace. The others are more tubey. The Teton is OTL with more distinct coloration with HD800 (more bassier / punch) because of high output impedance of 50ohms. One of the guys here is getting a Teton in, so maybe wait until we can get a more direct comparison?

I'm planning to use as source a notebook running JRiver/Jplay into the ART Legato II USB-SPDIF interface and a Lenehan Audio PDX Level 2 DAC (BB1704 R2R chip with 6922 tube output). This is my old leftover gear from my speaker set up. Planning to use my headphone setup in my office.

I was previously using a portable Centrance dac/amp. It's ok sounding, but I've heard through some auditions how much better my HD800 can sound with good amplification (e.g. Ear HP4). Makes my Centrance sound flat and boring in comparison, not to mention irritating vocal sibilance. I've also heard the Woo WA5 with stock tubes (clear mids, but generally not refined, could be the stock tubes, anyway I figured tube rolling for the WA5 is going to be painfully expensive), as well as the Pathos Aurium (smooth and pleasant I suppose, but doesn't grab me, kind boring).

I hope for a setup that delivers strong tonality and presence. I want details, but without giving me migraine from sibilance and etched sound. Good bass will be nice since that's something that the HD800 could always benefit from. I'm also looking at tubes primarily so that I can adjust the sound to better suit my other components since I can never fully predict how an amp will sound in my chain until I hear it in person.

The most 'impressive' head amp I've heard in person is the Ear HP4. It was really smooth and lush sounding, yet with good detail, weighty bass. It was the first amp that showed me what the HD800 can do if amped well, and convinced me to stick with them. But I've read that its sound seems heavily coloured by its output transformers or its circuit, so tube rolling may not have much impact on its sound. It's also got a small casing which means very few tubes actually fit inside it. Wanted a bit more flexibility (in terms of sound tuning) from the amp so I'm looking at other alternatives.

The Teton was high on my list as some feedback suggests that its sound changes the most radically through tube rolling, compared to other amps. Cheaper tube rolling is a good plus.

I also wonder a lot about the Stratus since feedback suggests it delivers the sound signature that I like (Donald seems to emphasise presence and tone texture, and he seems like a really nice guy to boot).
On the other hand, I've also heard how some described its bass as being slightly muddy, and may not suit a tube source as much as others. Also, rolling matched pairs of good 2A3s can get pretty expensive real fast. Hence, my dilemma...
« Last Edit: October 17, 2014, 02:21:49 PM by Mars73 »
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Marvey

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Re: Best Amps for Sennheiser HD800
« Reply #69 on: October 17, 2014, 05:16:12 PM »


Narrowing it down to Teton or Stratus.  I think you are heading the right direction for your preferences an would be pleased with either one.

I found the latest iteration of the Stratus much better in terms of bass, especially with the EML Meshes and a solid-state DAC. (Donald uses the tubed SFCD-1 at shows.) The Psvane WE275 ($400/pr) might have tighter bass too. But those two tubes are dryer sounding (we haven't even covered old stock 2A3s yet). Either way, I don't think the bass quality is going to any worse (assuming proper setup) than an OTL amp with ~50ohm output impedance.

Donald's amp is warm, has presence and good natural tone, and slightly rolled, but it also has plenty of bite and excitement when called for. I've used the word "intimate" and I think others who own the amp wouldn't disagree.

It's going to be at least a month before we get our grubby hands on the Teton to tell you for sure. We have some idea how it sounds, but don't want to say based on a short impression.

Did you prefer the EAR HP4 with the high output impedance or low output impedance jack?

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