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Author Topic: ER4S revisted (again for 4th time) versus UERM, ZA CT DX200, Klipsch R6R  (Read 7479 times)

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Anaxilus

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Anyone have a  Fostex TE-05 to add to the comparisons?

I wish, though I heard the production unit ended up being somewhat Beats tuned compared to the original prototype from people I trust.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2014, 05:39:05 AM by Anaxilus »
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shotgunshane

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The TE-05 was fairly V shaped to me. Surprisingly big bass and ~6k treble peak.
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mkubota1

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though I heard the production unit ended up being somewhat Beats tuned
Surprisingly big bass and ~6k treble peak.

Sadly/disappointingly, this is also what I heard from the TE-05
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OJneg

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I brought up vocals because vocals are what I like to use to judge "clarity". My own definition of clarity might be the ability of the system to let the tone/texture of the vocalist/instrument through. I feel the ER4S (by virtue of being more tonally accurate) is simply more clear at delivering vocals and the works. I think you agree on this, but it doesn't fall in with your definition of clarity.

However, I did catch onto the difference in each's treble texture like you mentioned. The Tenore has a very good treble quality. You could say it's more natural than the ER4S. But probably a bit smoothed over and lacking resolution too when you take a step back. While many have praised the ER4S's treble, I feel it still has that bit of sterility (maybe greyness?) that BAs have in the mids and upper registers. Maybe this is what you're catching onto when you say greyness or lacking clarity. I hear it more as a texture issue. I also feel that the fact that the ER4S is able to dig so deeply into a recording (very good low level retrieval IMO) might reveal some residual greyness that's left on the track. That's why I inquired about different recordings, because I don't feel the greyness is the fault of the ER4. I just has a certain sterility in that regard, but I don't hear it as grey. Or maybe I'm just not hearing it or don't have proper references  :-\

Anyway, going back to my direct comparison between the ER4S and Tenore: The Tenore fails by virtue of its boosted bass that tends to muddy things up when presented with broadband information. Too much kickdrum is a great example. Hearing the body of an instrument boom wildly is another. As Anax mentioned, it's not just the fact that it's boosted, but also that its decay is so damn slow and bloomy. I had to pick and choose the test tracks carefully, because if they had too much LF content it wasn't even a fair matchup. (And yes, I verified this next to two other neutral references that are not considered bass-lite, so don't say it's just the ER4S being bass-lite, [although I do think it is in an absolute sense]).

On tracks without that LF content, it came much closer to the ER4S's sound tonally. Which is a good thing in my view. I'm going to have to go back and try to EQ them to equivalent bass levels in order to give an honest evaluation with most of my reference tracks. But without a high shelf, I couldn't in good faith recommend the Tenore.
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M3NTAL

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Anyone have a  Fostex TE-05 to add to the comparisons?

I wish, though I heard the production unit ended up being somewhat Beats tuned compared to the original prototype from people I trust.


That is a darn shame! Thank you for the heads up.
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shotgunshane

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There seems to be up to a 3~4db variation in bass from set to set. To reduce the sub bass levels, try this front tip vent mod: http://www.head-fi.org/t/703874/jvc-ha-fx850-iem-woody/105#post_10347472
Also comply s200 tips have less bass for me too, due to the porousness of that sport foam.
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Anaxilus

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No, greyness has nothing to do with resolution or BA or dynamic drivers.  The UERM is more resolving than both by quite a bit and doesn't pull any supposed extra grey from the track.  Even the DBA02 is less grey and more clear than the UERM.  I know Marv and others believe it's from the crossover.  The ER4 puts grey on to every track because it's coming from the phone itself.  This actually makes it less transparent to the recording because you can't notice the difference in how tracks are mastered by comparison.  I thought my visual aid of haze over a picture would help but I guess not.  I'll have to rethink how to describe it.  It's just like looking through a clear versus dirty window.  It's an immediate effect, not one that requires study for resolving ability.  If you ever noticed an immediate difference to how a speaker sounds when you pull a cloth grill or speaker cover from over the driver, it's similar to that rather than a resolution issue.  It could be the filter, I should have tried it with the filter off to see.

I know recording engineers can also add this greyness to a track to hide recording artifacts they think will distract listeners.  You find this a lot on many classical and acoustic performances which annoys the crap out of me.  They can also try to remove it.  You'd have to ask LFF about this since it's in his wheelhouse.

I do agree the Tenore treble might be overly sweet and smooth but people like that as it increases euphony and gear and genre bandwidth.  People with certain Stax and planars would agree with that treble sound.  Zero grain, zero bite no matter what.
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OJneg

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I understand your definition of grey. I'm just not hearing it. Maybe next to a UERM I would.

Interesting that you bring up filters. Supposedly the red filters are better than the green (ones I have). Not sure if they would actually help in that respect though.
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Anaxilus

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I understand your definition of grey. I'm just not hearing it. Maybe next to a UERM I would.

Interesting that you bring up filters. Supposedly the red filters are better than the green (ones I have). Not sure if they would actually help in that respect though.

You should hear it versus the Tenores, I did.  Then again, maybe our sources have something to do with it too.
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lmswjm

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Overall, I'm really liking the Tenores. Admittedly, I don't have a lot of experience with IEM's, but they're not poo. They seem to be much better than the Pistons anyway. For the price I would think that they might be Booty worthy.


Anyway, I can definitely see that this road will lead me to trying the UERM eventually.
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