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Author Topic: Mini-Meet El-Lay May 10, 2014 Impressions  (Read 8836 times)

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Marvey

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Re: Mini-Meet El-Lay May 10, 2014 Impressions
« Reply #30 on: May 12, 2014, 10:26:33 PM »

If possible, can any of you comment more about what you thought of Alex's modded Oppo's?

The mods did add some air, but elevated the mid treble, thereby introducing an incoherent balance between the lower and upper registers. It almost fools you into thinking you are getting more openness and sense of space. Until you realize it doesn't.

I know Alex likes the PM-1 quite a bit; but I have to say that while I do appreciate what the mods are trying to do, the PM-1 modded is still sucky. Just a different flavor of sucky.

Seriously, there are so many headphones far better than the PM-1 at near or below it's cost point (Paradox Slants, Enigma, HE-560, LCD-2r2, etc.)
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warrenpchi

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Re: Mini-Meet El-Lay May 10, 2014 Impressions
« Reply #31 on: May 12, 2014, 10:28:58 PM »

I didn't like it.  :(  There was no part of that audition that I liked.  I'd happily give it another go to try and pinpoint why I didn't like it, but I didn't even bother trying to figure out why I didn't like it since I was there to have a good time.  Who knows, maybe we'll hear a better one soon?  I'm certainly not ruling out that there was some very wrong with the one we heard.
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LFF

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Re: Mini-Meet El-Lay May 10, 2014 Impressions
« Reply #32 on: May 12, 2014, 10:37:31 PM »

If anyone saw the PM-1 thread (original one) at Head-Fi, I am the one who first pointed out the lower mids' distortions on the PM-1 (based on the About.com measurements) and was criticized for nitpicking a possibly inaudible thing.

Yeah, I pretty much quit that thread on HF after the mods shifted things around because the thread got heated going into measurements and PM-1 fanboys started to cry. My beef with the about.com measurements, which i did point out in the HF thread, was with the the distortion measurement y-scale going from 0% to 50% in linear fashion when our hearing is logarithmic. Ultra's non-linear distortion measurements (which are scaled properly) for the PM-1 on this site tell us much more.

BTW 3-4% at 300Hz is audible and it's high. Contrary to popular belief, high distortion doesn't necessarily sound like guitar distortion effects or clipping. It usually sounds more like veil, blur, mush, or in more general terms "low fidelity suckyness".

PM-1...a new entry into low fidelity suckyness.

Marvey, you should trademark that phrase.
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warrenpchi

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Re: Mini-Meet El-Lay May 10, 2014 Impressions
« Reply #33 on: May 13, 2014, 12:22:47 AM »

Okay hold on guys... the more I think about this, the more I can't help wondering if that was a bad unit.  I mean seriously, when was the last time you heard a headphone like that - regardless of type or price range?

Being totally serious about this.  I mean, that was just, not right.
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Out Of Your Head

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Re: Mini-Meet El-Lay May 10, 2014 Impressions
« Reply #34 on: May 13, 2014, 12:33:56 AM »

Okay hold on guys... the more I think about this, the more I can't help wondering if that was a bad unit.  I mean seriously, when was the last time you heard a headphone like that - regardless of type or price range?

Being totally serious about this.  I mean, that was just, not right.

Well, I heard Alex's stock production unit a couple weeks ago but I didn't really listen too hard to the stock ones at the meet since I had already heard Alex's pair. However, I did listen to the stock pair at the meet and nothing stood out to me as sounding better or worse than Alex's stock PM-1's. Of course there could be some variation from one unit to the next, but I don't think we're talking about a defective pair. (I don't have golden ears like all of you though.)
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ultrabike

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Re: Mini-Meet El-Lay May 10, 2014 Impressions
« Reply #35 on: May 13, 2014, 01:24:42 AM »

I think Tyll talked to Igor about it and he agreed that the distortion issues in the midrange were expected from the driver limitatons:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/685704/oppo-pm-1-a-new-planar-magnetic-headphone/1590#post_10472455

I got higher distortion numbers at 90 dB SPL though.
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Marvey

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Re: Mini-Meet El-Lay May 10, 2014 Impressions
« Reply #36 on: May 13, 2014, 02:42:49 AM »

Everyone at the meet would have been fine with the PM-1 had it been priced at $350 or less. $1100+ deserves another level of scrutiny.
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LFF

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Re: Mini-Meet El-Lay May 10, 2014 Impressions
« Reply #37 on: May 13, 2014, 05:43:16 AM »

Everyone at the meet would have been fine with the PM-1 had it been priced at $350 or less. $1100+ deserves another level of scrutiny.

I totally agree with this.

At $350 I might recommend it. At $250 it would be a no-brainer but at $1100+....uhmm....NO.

The HE560 is lighter, more comfortable and an all around better performer at under $1000.
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zerodeefex

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Re: Mini-Meet El-Lay May 10, 2014 Impressions
« Reply #38 on: May 13, 2014, 05:51:00 AM »

Didn't Oppo ask folks where these should be priced?
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givemevinyl

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Re: Mini-Meet El-Lay May 10, 2014 Impressions
« Reply #39 on: May 13, 2014, 06:34:19 AM »

I like Ohhgourami a lot, great guy.  Sorry but in my opinion I think the Krell sounds god awful and it's the second time I've heard it even after new changes.  Slow, dark, muddy and bloated.  Hate to say it, but power amps for the HE6 only seem to convince me that most people are coloring the HE6 and liking it rather than driving it to magical levels of power and performance.  I'm pretty sure if I had to do a blind test between the HE6 into that Krell versus the HE6 into the Meridian Explorer I would not be able to tell the difference.  Or one could just get one of the plethora of inevitable used Oppo PM1s about to flood the market and plug it into an iPhone.  This is just my off the wall opinion after clearly waking up on the wrong side of the bed.   

The 445 was pretty clearly superior in just about every way imaginable with the HE6.

And yes, they clearly scaled better on a sucky distorting tube amp versus the monster SS Krell.  Go figure.

I rarely post my impressions, but feel compelled to do so now.  Regarding Krell, I've never understood its draw on the HF HE-6 thread.  Never considered it for my speaker system, and would not consider it for headphones, but is it the same as Meridian Explorer?  Of course not.  That's just silly talk.  As for using speaker amps for HE-6, it's unfortunate that it has become a punch-line for non-believers and a self-defeating mantra for believers because there really can be impressive results when the right amp is found.  And what is the right amp?  Well, does it really matter if it's head- or speaker-based amp so long as its signature matches your sonic DNA?  Many of the posters on the HF thread bend over backwards to cite rational justifications for speaker amps in order to combat the naysayers who use the concept of volume to disprove the need for speaker amps.  It's a silly game.

I sold the rest of my headphones and head amps and removed bookmarks to HF FS forums and audiogon once I heard a HE-6 through a Pass INT30A, which btw is only 30 watts at 8 ohms.  Nothing I've owned (BA, Stratus, Liquid Glass, S7, Woo WA5LE, First Watt J2 w/HD800, HE-6, LCD3, TH900, W3000Anv) or auditioned (LL2 w/009) comes close.  At some point, I hope folks stop trying to justify or dismantle someone's amp choice (assuming it's a genuine one).  Full disclosure: my speaker system is also Pass-based (X250.5 and XP20), so I clearly like its "color".  There is an amp (Pass INT30A) that I enjoy and I'm grateful that there is a pair of headphones (HE-6) that allow me to hear it.  It's really that simple.
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