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Author Topic: Preliminary Headphone Measurements - WIP, Your Thoughts?  (Read 864 times)

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Hands

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Can you tell me more about the measurement kit? How much did it cost? I couldn't find anything on Head-Fi about it.

Hey Darin, hopefully dBel got you pointed where you needed to go. Keith actually sent me my kit as a loaner, but the BOM was relatively low when I asked if I could purchase it (I am still in testing phase, actually). He may or may not be willing to make another kit, but you'd have to contact him to find out.

If you have any other specific questions, let me know!

Also, the 8k dip appears in my plots as well. Likely some sort of interaction as the wavelength is significant to the size of the coupler at that point.

I'm actually beginning to believe they're not entirely artifacts. I think they can be to some extent, but when I ran a sine sweep on the MD later with my earballs, there was definitely a dip there. In fact, it actually seemed to match the measurements fairly closely, but I could be biased there. I'm also not super great in the 20Hz-1KHz band or the 10KHz+ band, but what I hear from 1-10KHz on most headphones when running a manual sine sweep app does seem to match the measurements decently, though perhaps only in characteristics and not absolutely accurate amplitude/compensation.

TBH, the only headphone I have on hand that has been measured and documented elsewhere is the HE-500 with jerg pads. But, what I have doesn't measure like how Marv's did. On the other hand, my pads are not modded identically, and I have applied a couple other tweaks that I don't believe Marv had for his measurements. And while, again, I could be biased, playing around with SineGen seems to more confirm my measurements than not. I am planning on playing around with the HE-500 and will come back with findings, if I find anything.



Could you get the results to be fairly repeatable? You could mod the WM-61 into a wand mic pretty easily too and with the materials, probably build the same rigs as Ultra has done sometime.

I've taken a lot of test measurements, and even with removing and re-seating headphones, or making slight adjustments, you'd be surprised how much consistency and repeatability I can get. Perhaps I'll try to post results of that.

WM61A could definitely be modded for purposes like that, which is an option I've left on the table for later.
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Hands

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MD3.2 Re-done + repeatability/consistency test + newish compensation curve
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2014, 02:42:51 PM »

OK, I've got a couple things for this post and the next. First, I've revised my compensation curve to account for a hump in the ~2-4KHz area that measurements were producing. This was most obvious on the HE-500 and modded HD598 I measured, which I won't be posting just yet. I spent quite a bit of time with subjective listening and careful sine sweep examinations with SineGen to help me get the compensation curve closest to what I think I hear. When compensating for the hardware bass roll-off, the mic's slight sensitivity in the upper treble (using calibration settings found online), and the stronger-than-what-I-actually-hear hump around 2-4KHz, I'd argue these measurements are not too far off from what I'm actually hearing (i.e. they might eventually hold enough value for others to use as general measurements, given many more tests and validation with many more headphone samples and once I get my methods down). I do still need to dial in on SPL calibrations and such to produce the most accurate THD measurements possible.

Also, I did a basic test for measurement repeatability/consistency, but only on one HP for now. Attached are 4 measurements of the tweaked Mad Dog 3.2 left channel. In between each test, I removed the headphones completely, wiggled and pushed on the mic in my ear a bit, and put the headphones back on for best comfort and assumed seal/fit for sound. Slight differences show, but at a smaller level of variation than I had initially expected (keeping in mind these measurements are zoomed to a fairly large scale). I also attached the CSD of the 4th measurement. I believe the FR/HD scale is different than last time around for better readability.

Treble response through SineGen is on-par with what measurements indicate, including that dip (though do check to see if dips get smoothed out any in CSDs).
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Hands

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UE6000 quick re-do, CAL Measurements
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2014, 02:51:46 PM »

Attached the FR/HD/CSD from the UE6000's left channel using the new compensation curve. I was able to get a better bass seal this time, it seems, but you can compare with the earlier measurements to get an idea of how repeatable/consistent tests are (same for the MD measurements from earlier and in the previous post).

Also attached the L/R, FR/HD/CSD measurements of my modded Creative Aurvana Live! (CAL). Again, matches what I hear pretty closely, down to the channel imbalances (these were not precisely modded). Subjectively, these are fairly neutral with a warm/dark tilt. Bass gets pretty muddy when you turn it up, hence the high harmonic distortion. Good detail, but slightly shelved mids. Does really, really well at low volumes. The bass and overall sound cleans up, the details still shine through...very nice. Even at the bare minimum output volume from most devices, these still do really well.

Tyll's measurements of the un-modded CAL: http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/CreativeAurvana.pdf
Golden Ears: http://en.goldenears.net/4446

1. UE6000 L
2. UE6000 L CSD
3. CAL L
4. CAL R
5. CAL L CSD
6. CAL R CSD
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OJneg

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I don't mean to imply that they are artifacts, but rather that the microstructure above a certain point is caused by that sort of interaction. You'd expect those same peaks and dips to be audible if the coupler is indeed your own head/ear. :D
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Hands

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Absolutely, but it doesn't hurt to double check, especially when there is junk in your ear that could cause otherwise abnormal interference. :) I was glad to see it usually matched subjectively.

Edit: Assuming some level of accuracy with these measurements, I think my measurements are a bit telling of my personal preferences based on how the two tweaked-by-myself-in-some-manner headphones measure. Fairly linear/neutral-ish, dark-ish tilt.  :))  I'd have to try some wildly different headphones on my setup first, though.

BTW, I don't think the MD has as much bass as you'd expect based on these measurements, but that often seems to be true of the T50RP.

Edit 2: Russian measurements of what I believe is the Mad Dog 3.2: http://personalaudio.ru/raa/otchety/naushniki/mrspeakers-mad-dog/ (compare against my personally tweaked version)
« Last Edit: April 19, 2014, 03:55:15 PM by hans030390 »
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Between what Keith has written on this kit, my friend's successful attempt and yours hans, I'm sure I'd be able to get mine right. Some day... When I have the time......
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Great job Hans! I might have read wrong, but it seems you are using your own head/ears as coupling between the cans and the mic. This could make things somewhat closer to Tyll's setup, though according to his discussion here, he might be using a smaller mic that goes dipper into the ear, therefore requiring different compensation curves.

I believe something similar to your approach was discussed here. Hopefully the links can be of assistance.
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Hands

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That's correct, UB. Same basic method as Keith/BlueMonkeyFlier on Head-Fi...I did get the kit from him, after all! But I did deviate from him in my choice of software and by building my own, fairly basic compensation curve.

My current goal is to test as many headphones as I can, especially already-measured cans on various setups (trying to avoid brands or headphones with known QC and variance issues). Once I have the gear necessary to calibrate everything, as I still have no real way for me to guarantee I'm running a headphone at, say, 90dB, test headphones out, and tweak my compensation curve, I'll evaluate from there whether or not I can produce measurements this way with enough accuracy and repeatability/consistency to provide general measurements of any headphone to the public. If it's not quite up to par, and I decide to not build a more dedicated rig, it's still very useful for my modding endeavors!

I have to say, I'm surprised I'm not seeing more seal-related issues. I figured my long-ish hair, for a male, would cause problems (I keep it pushed back/held behind ears for tests), but that seems to be much less of an issue than I anticipated. (I wonder if it's at all due to the fact I have a lot of thick, straight, smooth hair...I do use argan oil in it daily, which may help? LOL)
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Sony MDR-1R Measurements and Some Updates
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2014, 12:01:59 PM »

Some updates on my measurement stuff:

1. Slightly tweaked my compensation curve again. While most WM61As show a treble sensitivity that peaks around 15KHz (measurements vary from unit to unit, but characteristic is similar), I wasn't entirely sure the measured HP results quite matched what I was hearing subjectively (i.e. pushed down the around around 10KHz a touch too much). I also tweaked the area around 2-5KHz for a touch more attenuation after compensation.

2. Invested a whopping, oh, $15-20 on a digital SPL meter. The idea was that I could use that to, at least somewhat, more accurately say, "This headphone is outputting 90dB at 1KHz." Thus, I would be able to more accurately set my mic-in volume setting so that my computer would also show 90dB when playing a 90dB signal. I haven't quite taken it that far, yet, but I have used the meter to get a rough idea of what the headphone is putting out.

I found it more difficult that anticipated to properly measure the headphone's output levels. Where exactly do you place and angle the meter relative to the driver? Is some sort of sealed environment necessary or not? And so on. I experimented with open measurements and sealed-environment measurements and played around a lot with position and angling of the meter.

The sealed environment method made it more difficult to position and angle the meter in a fashion similar to the placement and angling of my ears, but the results were, as expected, more "stable." Another downside was that, subjectively, getting a 90dB reading in the sealed environment was difficult and sounded much louder than I expected it to.

The open environment gave me a lot of room to play around and position the meter similar to how my ears would be, roughly. With this method, I found I did not have to drive the headphones as hard to get the meter to read ~90dB, and I was actually able to listen to music at that volume setting (albeit a bit uncomfortably due to the MDR-1R's sound). That was more in line with what I expected, so I decided to use this method to estimate the output of a headphone. I used that to verify a rough baseline of an 80/100 mic-in volume setting, and I'm still measuring headphones by matching 1KHz to -10dB in ARTA. I like Marv's tests and am roughly trying to emulate how his look and turn out (also for other's familiarity), though it remains to be seen what I'll end up using in the end.

When accounting for slightly different positioning and angling, and doing a sort of mental averaging of these values in my head, the open environment metering method indicates the headphone is outputting somewhere around 87-91dB at 1KHz. Even if not, I can simply classify it as being fairly loud but not ear shattering during music playback.

MDR-1R Thought and Measurements

Looks good. Presentation, down to the fabric-lined packaging, is excellent. Feels lighter than expected, but it also didn't look like it was made from as much plastic as it is. Fairly comfortable, though I haven't worn it for an extended period. Ears sometimes touch the baffle and driver, which is not the best in terms of comfort.

Sound is decent to good at low volumes, but not stellar relative to everything else about the headphone. At moderate volumes, sound is noticeably more flabby but not overbearing. Not particularly great. At high volumes, sound falls apart even further. Mids and highs become harsh and a bit screeching, and bass gets even tubbier and more uncontrolled.

I only bought them to see if they'd be comfortable for long sessions. I'll mod them down the road if they are. I will note that I have not yet listened to these extensively or ran them through sine sweeps in attempt to verify these measurements, but they are a bit hard to listen to at high volumes. These were purchased used from Amazon Warehous e, and I don't know if the MDR-1R is known for product variance.

For comparison, Marv's measurements: http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1300.msg34693.html#msg34693
Tyll's: http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SonyMDR1R.pdf
Golden Ears: http://en.goldenears.net/15436
Personalaudio.ru: http://personalaudio.ru/raa/otchety/naushniki/so/

I think my modded CAL sounds better.
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Hands

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Golden Ears posted UE6000 measurements:

http://en.goldenears.net/index.php?mid=GR_Headphones&document_srl=33893

Given I am still slightly tweaking my compensation curve and haven't updated the UE6000 measurements in a while, how do you think they compare?

Edit: Didn't notice they had both passive and NC measurements available.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 10:26:38 AM by hans030390 »
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