Downstream equipment is the equalizer of HD800 performance.

I really like this statement, as it is what I've come to understand. As much as my curiosity tells me to jump on the HD800 I doubt I'll be doing them any justice until I want to spend at least 1.5x their price on a new amp (then another 2-3k on a new DAC and another 1.5k on an OR5, etc.).

Actually, understanding the magnitude of diminishing returns we encounter with better equipment, what would you guys consider as a really good budget setup for the HD800? I'd like to think my Uberfrost will be sufficient for the time being but what about amp? Crack+Speedball?

Quote from: Stapsy on March 27, 2014, 11:51:12 PM

Downstream equipment is the equalizer of HD800 performance.

I really like this statement, as it is what I've come to understand. As much as my curiosity tells me to jump on the HD800 I doubt I'll be doing them any justice until I want to spend at least 1.5x their price on a new amp (then another 2-3k on a new DAC and another 1.5k on an OR5, etc.).

Actually, understanding the magnitude of diminishing returns we encounter with better equipment, what would you guys consider as a really good budget setup for the HD800? I'd like to think my Uberfrost will be sufficient for the time being but what about amp? Crack+Speedball?

Why don't you ask in the wonderful HD800 thread on HF

I think the Vali is very nice with the HD800.  If you could pick up a cheap HD800 it might be worth it.  Thinking back to the improvement I have noticed with the HD800 I have a hard time suggesting to pair it with the Vali as a full time end game.  I think of it more as a stop gap if you own the HD800 and are considering moving up the amp/dac ladder.  In my experience HD800 are so resolving that with lower end gear they end up picking up a lot of graininess unless you go the other way and overly smooth out the sound with your amp/dac.


I would wait and see how the new Hifiman's turn out before I went to a minimum HD800 setup.  Since you already like the HE-4 it seems like a better idea to me.   I am listening to my new old HE-5 right now and they have a bit of the HD800 flavor.  Based on Jerg's initial 560 impressions 560's may give you what you want without having to deal with the downstream issues the HD800 can have

HD800 are better but not 3-4x better - absolutely not for me.

The problem I have with absolute statements like this is how would you know?  People take their limited experiences and make universal exclamations about them without any expression of what gear, music, methodology, preferences they utilize.  I have no problem liking any phone over another and value propositions are fine, but when you start making universal claims with limited data or experience that's just tantamount to misrepresentation.  It's something that HF is famous for promoting without any counterbalance.  Perhaps I'm just a philosophical prude, but when you say stuff like that, rest assured I will chime to offer a counter balance.

On it's face, I find most of your comments no different then the plethora of Shure 840/1840, Sony sa-5000, Beyer 880/T1, AKG K812 claims that those phones equal or better the HD800.  It's fine to have that opinion, but without knowing exactly why you feel that way it's pretty pointless.

If you say that for my gear and age, I just like the price performance proposition of the HE4 then that's fine.  Extrapolating that by stating the HD800 is absolutely not worth X amount of dollars (ergo insinuating it's a rip off) or not X times better is a logical leap to say the least which by definition is a fallacious conclusion.

Consider your idea that the 800 is not 3x's better or worth $1500.  If there is not one song or one moment in time over the course of my life that I prefer to listen to the HE4 over my HD800 on my rig, then how is the 800 not 3x's better or worth $1500 to me?  This is why I don't like statements like you made.  They also lead to a potential hype scenario where some people to buy an HE4 expecting an HD800 level of performance on the cheap only to be let down with false expectations.  Another phenomenon quite common on other forums. 

 


I wonder how the Vali would pair with the HE-4.  I think the Vali does a good job of controlling the HD800 treble and still providing resolution.  Could work for the HE-4 if they aren't too inefficient.  I need to go back and look at all the FRs for the Hifiman stuff.

Edit: Nevermind I just went back to look at the graphs and saw Marvey's comments on the pairing

Quote from: Darth Obvious on March 28, 2014, 12:04:14 AM

HD800 are better but not 3-4x better - absolutely not for me.

The problem I have with absolute statements like this is how would you know?  People take their limited experiences and make universal exclamations about them without any expression of what gear, music, methodology, preferences they utilize.  I have no problem liking any phone over another and value propositions are fine, but when you start making universal claims with limited data or experience that's just tantamount to misrepresentation.  It's something that HF is famous for promoting without any counterbalance.  Perhaps I'm just a philosophical prude, but when you say stuff like that, rest assured I will chime to offer a counter balance.

On it's face, I find most of your comments no different then the plethora of Shure 840/1840, Sony sa-5000, Beyer 880/T1, AKG K812 claims that those phones equal or better the HD800.  It's fine to have that opinion, but without knowing exactly why you feel that way it's pretty pointless.

If you say that for my gear and age, I just like the price performance proposition of the HE4 then that's fine.  Extrapolating that by stating the HD800 is absolutely not worth X amount of dollars (ergo insinuating it's a rip off) or not X times better is a logical leap to say the least which by definition is a fallacious conclusion.

Consider your idea that the 800 is not 3x's better or worth $1500.  If there is not one song or one moment in time over the course of my life that I prefer to listen to the HE4 over my HD800 on my rig, then how is the 800 not 3x's better or worth $1500 to me?  This is why I don't like statements like you made.  They also lead to a potential hype scenario where some people to buy an HE4 expecting an HD800 level of performance on the cheap only to be let down with false expectations.  Another phenomenon quite common on other forums. 

I didn't make any universal exclamation... I just said that HD800 are not 3-4x better FOR ME. And I explained why - HE-4 are simply better than all the mid-fi headphones I've heard (all the Beyers, AKGs, HD600/HD650, Shures etc.) so far and they even very slightly overperform entry-highend orthos (LCD-2, HE-500) for me. HE-4 are considered as a hard-to-drive headphone and yet they overperform HE-500 for me without needing a beefy speaker amp.

IMHO IMHO IMHO... IMHO.