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Author Topic: Metrum Acoustics Hex DAC Measurements  (Read 6800 times)

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Hands

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About those -90dB 1KHz tests
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2014, 08:30:57 AM »

Going back to that -90dB 1KHz sine wave test (low-level resolution), I'm more sure of what we're looking at now that I've tried the test on some other DACs (haven't posted anything for that). According to the Stereophile link, "This test signal produces three quantization steps: 0, +1, and -1. The three levels should be of equal amplitude, and the signal should be symmetrical around the center horizontal division." (My results might not be to proper scale to show this exactly.)

If your DAC upsamples and has good low-level resolution abilities, this test should display a smooth, clean sine wave. A good NOS DAC should show those 3 quantization steps, like the Hex shows in most of its measurements. In fact, the Hex does quite well in that test from a NOS perspective.

I tried this on the NOS1704, which has a noticeably higher noise floor. This directly impacted the DACs ability to resolve that sine wave even at 24-bits, 96KHz sampling rate. I'm not even sure you could call the results recognizable.

The SB1240, on the other hand, displayed a clean, smooth sine wave when I tested it.
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Hands

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Hex vs. Gungnir (16/44.1, no upsampling)
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2014, 01:47:15 PM »

I got the Gungnir loaner in today and did some comparisons with the Hex. Standard 16/44.1 playback from JRMC without software upsampling on either DAC. Used the BNC connectors on both with the JKSPDIF thingy. I'll be posting measurements of the Gungnir soon. Take these impressions with a grain of salt, as there's a decent chance I'm off or that you wouldn't agree with me.

What I immediately noticed was that the Hex did not seem to have any issues with bass or treble extension relative to the Gungnir, nor did it necessarily sound more laid-back than the Gungnir. In fact, I thought the Gungnir overall had a softer, maybe even more laid-back sound than the Hex. This held even when considering that the upper treble is a bit more attenuated on the Hex than the Gungnir (at least in this playback situation and setup).

The Hex seemed to have a blacker background, and it did a better job conveying micro-dynamics and "movement" within music (my terminology might be off). In other words, the Hex seemed to do a better job capturing quick attacks and properly presenting what I want to call small pockets of blackness in between the movements and notes. For one example, rapid attacks and fast chord progressions or complex melodies on a guitar coupled with palm muting and hand sliding came through with more rhythm, life, and power on the Hex. As mentioned, the Gungnir sounded a bit softer and less defined in this regard (more boring?). Both were pretty smooth and easy to listen to. The Hex may have sounded cleaner overall and perhaps a bit more dynamic/powerful.

The Hex did sound more condensed or collapsed than the Gungnir, though it didn't necessarily have less layering (I could be wrong). This seemed more dependent on the music. Occasionally the Hex seemed to convey a more natural sense of space than the Gungnir. The Gungnir would generally sound a bit more diffused overall. In a sense, this would sometimes give me the impression that the Hex was better focused and less laid-back. Vocals in particular sounded more centered and focused on the Hex with a bit more body to them. I often found myself preferring the more intimate, yet still layered and detailed quality of the Hex, but it really depended on the music.

Also, in particular, I thought the Hex did a better job showing off the rich harmonics in the chords of Akerfeldt's/Opeth's guitar work ("Ghost of Perdition," "Blackwater Park," etc.). The Gungnir sounded a bit mushier in that regard.

Perhaps tomorrow I will compare with the Gungnir on USB, and/or maybe throw software upsampling into the mix. Again, take all this with a grain of salt. And remember that these differences were often subtle.
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fishski13

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Re: Metrum Acoustics Hex DAC Measurements
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2014, 05:42:39 PM »

interesting observations.  compared to the other DACs i had here, the Gung was tuneful and dynamic.  it wasn't the least bit soft or boring via USB.  it reminds me of the Naim gears i owned but with better tonal balance and timbre.

have you compared USB to the JKenny USB-SPDIF converter?  not that the JKenny is identical to my MF V-Link USB-SPDIF converter, but the V-Link made every DAC sound more subdued/relaxed and rounded.
 
maybe we should break this off into the Gungnir Loaner thread.
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Marvey

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Re: Metrum Acoustics Hex DAC Measurements
« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2014, 06:10:03 PM »

Waiting for more hans!
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Hands

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Re: Metrum Acoustics Hex DAC Measurements
« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2014, 06:46:00 PM »

I'll get the Gungir measurements up tonight/very early tomorrow morning and will be trying out USB then. It measured a bit better with jitter than BNC with JKSPDIF, so I wouldn't be surprised if it sounds better.

Also keep in mind I'm speaking relatively here. Not saying the Gungir isn't those things. Also not saying I have great hearing.  :)p12
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Marvey

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Re: Metrum Acoustics Hex DAC Measurements
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2014, 06:53:29 PM »

Bah. Stop apologizing for yourself. You have good ears. If you didn't, you'd be  walk the plank2  by now.


I actually know what you are talking about when you cite some of the Gungnir's shortcomings.
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Hands

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More Gungnir vs. Hex thoughts
« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2014, 01:53:36 PM »

Haha, just trying to cover my ass for anyone that thinks otherwise!

I did some USB/BNC comparisons on the Gungnir. I'm pretty sure USB sounds better. The Gungnir overall sounded more "with it" and less soft. So, an improvement in all areas mentioned. Of course, I'd like to hear how USB compares to BNC from a better converter like the OR5. (The same applies to the Hex, which I believe is on the sensitive side in terms of the chain of gear behind it...it's probably limited by the JKSPDIF.)

The differences between the Hex and Gungir became more subtle after I switched to USB. Really, most of my thoughts from before still stand, just to a lesser degree. The Gungir still sounds a bit soft and slow in comparison, maybe slightly thicker sounding. But it does have a smooth, sweet quality to it. The Hex seems cleaner and more focused, but more condensed, as mentioned earlier. I like the more intimate nature of the Hex and think it helps flesh out vocals in any situation and helps with instrument separation/details in complex, fast, messy passages in genres like metal. The Gungnir might be better for, say, orchestral, as the more compact nature of the Hex lends itself better to 3-6 people bands with music that isn't particularly wide or spacious sounding (or whatever number...you get the idea). Just a guess, though, because I don't listen to much music that necessitates a wide, extremely layered soundstage.

In terms of dynamics, I found them comparable with the Hex being slightly more engaging. And in regards to the Hex sounding "cleaner," I thought it did a slightly better job pulling out details in the bass. It's hard to describe, but in some ways I found the DACs to be both more aggressive and more laid-back than the other in different ways. But if you consider the Hex has more of a roll-off in the very upper treble and that I find the Gungnir to be a bit softer sounding, it sort of makes sense. Keep in mind this was 16/44.1 tests without any software upsampling. I was actually surprised how not laid-back the Hex sounded compared to the Gungnir with this playback setup.

I touched on this in my other post, but vs. the Gungnir, I think the Hex does a better job conveying a sense of life, rhythm, and attack...I almost want to equate this to the underlying, emotional swings, movements, and beats that come from the culmination of the musical technicalities and the musician's unique "feel" for what they're playing and how they play it. Moments when there's a miniscule amount of blackness before everyone strikes heavily at the exact same moment, I felt the Hex handled that a bit better. Subtle differences in how a particular guitarists moves their hand and fingers across the fretboard or their picking techniques, the micro-nuances that bring out the underlying feeling and motion behind the chords, melodies, and overall music, I found the Hex did better.

Overall, I might consider the Hex to be more transparent. YMMV. This might also change if I ran the DACs in balanced mode. But, given the price of the Hex (especially of you want the USB input add-on or need to get a SPDIF converter), the Gungnir is a much saner purchase.

I'm becoming increasingly convinced that while NOS DACs do tend to have a particular sound to them and have known limitations (see discussions on NOS DACs floating around these forums), these limitations really don't play a huge factor during music playback. You'd think my ears would fall off based on how some rail against NOS DACs or that I'd hiss and howl every time I swapped from the Gungnir to the Hex, but I'd like to see how many could correctly identify NOS/OS DACs in blind testing (assuming good DACs overall). At worst, I think the NOS limitations impart qualities that could easily be found as pleasing to some, much like what you'd see with a well-designed tube amp that doesn't necessarily measure "excellent" in all areas. I'm guessing some or many of these limitations and poor measurements are below our hearing capabilities during music playback. Of course, certain hardware will probably handle a NOS output differently (in terms of ultrasonic stuff).
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NOS artifacts, audibility, and software upsampling
« Reply #27 on: March 01, 2014, 04:32:43 PM »

With all of the various artifacts NOS can create, some of which make their way into the audible spectrum, it's important and interesting to consider how much that actually factors into music playback and enjoyment. Creating ugly looking measurements on a NOS DAC is super easy. Here's a simple example: Turn on a 15KHz sine wave and take a look, even with a basic measurement setup. Believe it or not, I never actually tested the audibility of this or similar tests specifically until recently...and by accident, really. Until then, I had only listened to music to see if I heard anything amiss.

I was running a headphone through SineGen to see if I might be able to identify where certain peaks and valleys existed. Once I got beyond the 4-5KHz point, I started to hear something...odd. It got more powerful the higher I went. It wasn't the frequencies I was playing either. It sounded like digital artifacts and noise, or something not too dissimilar from a dial-up tone (think less severe and softer, though). I wondered if this might be the NOS DAC's artifacts, as I had never encountered this before. I tested out a couple of my OS DACs, they clearly did not have this issue, and this was unmistakable.

Surely if I was hearing these artifacts, I should be able to measure them. So, I got out ARTA for some tests and to create some 15KHz test files. The test files sounded pretty nasty, as expected. I took some measurements, and...I think they explain it entirely.

I had done music-based measurements before, and you can see my results earlier in this thread. Software oversampling clearly had an effect in the ultrasonic region, and you could see how the NOS DAC behaved without it. I wanted to see if software upsampling would audibly and measurably improve the 15KHz tone response. With a 16/44.1 file, I tried 88.2KHz software upsampling in JRMC. The artifact noise lessened and changed its primary pitch. I went to 176KHz upsampling, and the primary pitch again jumped, I believe by an octave. Most of that extraneous noise and artifacting disappeared as well. Once again, measurements tell the story.

I still believe that these NOS artifacts have little to no audible effect during most music playback, but that would entirely depend on what you're listening to. I have not yet heard anything red book, without software upsampling, on the Hex where I thought something was clearly messed up in the background (or foreground) like I could in these tests. Switching back and forth with software upsampling did not appear to sound dramatically different with music like these tests would suggest.

The measurements are rough, but they do what I need them to. Even if they aren't accurate, the audible changes were dramatic and clear. Without software upsampling, it was almost difficult to make out the 15KHz tone with some test files. It was much clearer after high upsampling. Take this all as you will. I bet the Hex w/ software upsampling (or even without, often) would make a lot of people quite happy.

1. 15KHz sine wave, 16/48, 0dB
2. Same, but -1dB
3. Same, but -3dB
4. 15KHz, 16/192, 0dB
5. Same, but -3dB
6. 15KHz sine wave, 16/48 file, upsampled to 192KHz in JRMC, 0dB (with this and the nest test, you can see how much of a difference this makes)
7. Same, but -3dB

Again, results aren't perfect. ARTA playback put in weird spurs and other artifacts/noise that otherwise weren't there, likely due to using WDM instead of ASIO (JRMC uses kernel streaming). Ignore that, as I confirmed JRMC playback will always measure slightly cleaner than WDM through ARTA. For example, the 192, 0dB playback from ARTA looks odd/noisy compared to the JRMC 16/48 upsampled file at 0dB, so just focus on the spikes and such. The ADC was at 24/96 for these tests.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2014, 06:28:47 PM by hans030390 »
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aive

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Re: Metrum Acoustics Hex DAC Measurements
« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2014, 03:37:15 AM »

Wow, thanks for taking the time and effort. Pretty interesting results - upsampling to push noise into ultrasonic bands seems to have tangible sonic benefits. Definitely going to be keeping an eye out for this functionality as I continue DAC shopping.
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Re: Metrum Acoustics Hex DAC Measurements
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2014, 12:10:08 PM »

Have you listened to a 15kHz tone at lower output levels ?
The side-band/distortion products seem to lower significantly in level at lower amplitudes.
Everything below -80dB should be difficult to detect.
Ofcourse if multiple frequencies are present (as in music) there will be a big dense 'wall' of spikes present and as a lot of spikes, close to each other, all add in voltage levels (not in dB's) the average noise floor of that recording worsens considerably and may even become higher than that of the actual recording.
Low level noise that is NOT present when there is no signal, but is present with the music might not be that audible (masked by the music)
It may even give the impression there is more presence/treble when in fact it is rolled off in reality (see XNor's explanation) + has added side frequencies (which is what you heard)

There isn't a single piece of music around with high frequencies reaching 0dB or even -6dB it is MUCH lower.

At least it shows (as XNOR has argued before) that a NOS DAC without software upsampling playing redbook and having no reconstruction filter isn't the wisest thing to do.

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Use your ears to enjoy music, not as an analyser.
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