CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS

  • December 31, 2015, 09:39:00 AM
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 2 [3]

Author Topic: Audio-GD NOS-1704 DAC Measurements  (Read 5241 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Marvey

  • The Man For His Time And Place
  • Master
  • Pirate
  • *****
  • Brownie Points: +555/-33
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6698
  • Captain Plankton and MOT: Eddie Current
Re: Audio-GD NOS-1704 DAC Measurements
« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2013, 08:28:24 PM »

Welcome to the party. I hate doing jitter measurements and haven't found a good consistent way to do them. Funny stuff keeps happening with the noise floor, sidebands, etc. One day...
Logged

Hands

  • Pizza the Hutt
  • Mate
  • Pirate
  • ****
  • Brownie Points: +331/-8
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1591
  • Master of Revelatory Bird Calls and Fine Art
Re: Audio-GD NOS-1704 DAC Measurements
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2013, 04:30:15 AM »

Well, if anyone knows the best settings to use, I'd be glad to re-do jitter measurements with them. Always glad to improve my techniques or try new ones. Otherwise, I think what I've done will at least give us a basic picture of a DAC's jitter performance given whatever gear and software is running behind it. Or they're no good and I'm wasting internet space...oh my.

I won't give any sort of final judgement on the JK unit, even with the NOS1704, until I've had a chance to try it with other hardware and some BNC input jacks on DACs. I plan on modding the Metrum and maybe one of the NOS1704 coax jacks that is on the CS8416. I have heard enough people claim this improves reflection jitter to give it a shot. I might also replace the Metrum's output transformer and see if that improves its sense of "presence" relative to the NOS1704.
Logged
The other master and I invite you to visit our digital museum of fine art and revelatory bird calls: https://www.facebook.com/SchrodsonkMuseum

Hands

  • Pizza the Hutt
  • Mate
  • Pirate
  • ****
  • Brownie Points: +331/-8
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1591
  • Master of Revelatory Bird Calls and Fine Art
Re: Audio-GD NOS-1704 DAC Measurements
« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2013, 09:39:17 AM »

I did a bit more research on window function settings. Unfortunately, I'm finding it very difficult to figure out what settings people generally use for JTest, so what I've read thus far is just general information on the different window settings.

Originally, I had used the flat-top window because it most closely matched the look of other jitter measurements I've seen (i.e. the response starts to arc up at the base of the signal being played, which is 12KHz for the 48KHZ test).

Unfortunately, flat-top isn't the only window setting that produces similar results depending on the gear you're measuring, so I'm really not sure what others tend to use. I'm assuming there is a good reason for using what they do...

But, for the revised tests, I thought it would make more sense to run with whatever window function setting gave the most detailed amount of information. Generally this was the Kaiser5 or 7 window function setting. Otherwise, it seemed that a lot of measurement information would get "buried" (see my original Metrum ARTA spectrum measurements). As such, I also decided to try it with JTest, and it made it easier to see what was going on closer to that 12KHz signal.

Here is something I read about Kaiser windows: "The Kaiser-Bessel window is useful for detecting two signals of almost the same frequency but with significantly different amplitudes." My tests do seem to better display fine details with Kaiser window settings. Got that quote from: http://zone.ni.com/reference/en-XX/help/371361H-01/lvanlsconcepts/char_smoothing_windows/

On the other hand, the SB1240 did not show that arc before and after 12KHz even with the flat-top window, so perhaps such windows are actually used for a particular reason.

As for why the NOS1704 exhibits that dip in noise before and after 12KHz where as the Metrum did not with the Kaiser window setting, I do not know. You can see from my first NOS1704 jitter measurements that the different window setting does not exhibit the same dip. (Keeping in mind I'm looking at the non-JK measurements, which already did funky things.)

In the future, I will probably just measure using a few different windows and post all of them. As far as I could tell, it only really impacted the response immediately surrounding the test tone being played (sidebands stayed the same but might get "buried" when the response arcs up).

Update: The following page shows they use Hanning for their jitter tests. I think that's the default setting in ARTA. It might not matter so much as long as the sidebands and other jitter artifacts are clearly visible. They also have a rough chart for quick approximations to turn dB into ps, but I'm not sure how correct it might be. These measurements of the NOS1704 would likely mean more than 500ps of jitter. The Metrum was able to get below 180ps according to this chart with the same setup.

http://www.lessloss.com/page.html?id=42
« Last Edit: December 29, 2013, 10:17:59 AM by hans030390 »
Logged
The other master and I invite you to visit our digital museum of fine art and revelatory bird calls: https://www.facebook.com/SchrodsonkMuseum

Hands

  • Pizza the Hutt
  • Mate
  • Pirate
  • ****
  • Brownie Points: +331/-8
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1591
  • Master of Revelatory Bird Calls and Fine Art
Re: Audio-GD NOS-1704 DAC Measurements
« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2014, 04:32:34 PM »

I did further tests tonight with different DAC inputs, the Auzen vs JK coax out, cables, etc. By running an RCA to BNC coax cable from my Auzen out to the NOS1704, I was able to get less "weird" and generally better results. I found out that adding the 10dB RF attenuator (came with JK) lifted the treble response back up a bit, which was an oddity I originally commented on with my fist Auzen out-based measurements. In some ways the attenuator gave better measurements, and in some ways it made things weirder (ex: lowered sidebands below 12KHz in 24/48 JTest but raised sidebands above 12KHz vs no attenuator).

I'm not sure if this is because I'm running RCA-to-BNC or because the BNC input on the NOS1704 is wired to the DIR9001, while the RCA coax inputs are wired to the CS8416. I will eventually have to replace one of the RCA coax jacks with BNC to find out.

I will also retry the JK with the NOS1704 once I get some BNC-to-BNC cables in.

I should have the new jacks and cables in by next weekend, so I'm hoping to do more tests then. I'll spare everyone a bazillion measurement pictures and stats until I expand on these tests, get more validation on my methods, and decide what would be worth posting in the end.
Logged
The other master and I invite you to visit our digital museum of fine art and revelatory bird calls: https://www.facebook.com/SchrodsonkMuseum

Luckbad

  • Official Basshead
  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Pirate
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +7/-5
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 151
    • Basshead.Club
Re: Audio-GD NOS-1704 DAC Measurements
« Reply #24 on: September 08, 2015, 12:46:52 AM »

So... I bought your old NOS-1704 from the guy you sold it to. I'm hoping it comes this week, but it could be next because of the holiday.

I'll do the default RMAA tests when I get it, then again when the DI-2014 comes.

Interested to compare results for the exact same dac.
Logged

Hands

  • Pizza the Hutt
  • Mate
  • Pirate
  • ****
  • Brownie Points: +331/-8
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1591
  • Master of Revelatory Bird Calls and Fine Art
Re: Audio-GD NOS-1704 DAC Measurements
« Reply #25 on: September 08, 2015, 01:26:09 AM »

Hopefully your ADC isn't weird about sources that don't follow the usual 2V standard.
Logged
The other master and I invite you to visit our digital museum of fine art and revelatory bird calls: https://www.facebook.com/SchrodsonkMuseum

aive

  • Powder Monkey
  • *
  • Brownie Points: +5/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 35
Re: Audio-GD NOS-1704 DAC Measurements
« Reply #26 on: September 08, 2015, 04:11:36 AM »

NOS on my M7 is pretty fkd up - phase shift between left and right channels dependent on audio signal frequency and sampling frequency. If you got a DSO you should check it out.

The M7 DSP board is a heap of junk. Going to rip it out and replace with an I2StoPCM board from diya.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3]