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Author Topic: Audio-GD NOS-1704 DAC Measurements  (Read 5241 times)

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Marvey

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Re: Audio-GD NOS-1704 DAC Measurements
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2013, 10:33:46 PM »

On the jitter, we can see the sidebands which seem high. The most important thing is to get the noise floor low. Like -120 or -130db. We will be more likely to see the sidebands which are close the 12kHz signal. From coax, I would expect to see more of this.
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Re: Audio-GD NOS-1704 DAC Measurements
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2013, 05:43:51 AM »

I don't have a BNC to BNC cable to try, but I wonder if the BNC input (on DIR9001, not CS8416) would do better with jitter. I've heard many say BNC tends to perform better than RCA when impedance and everything else is matched correctly. I could also try swapping out one of the coax jacks on the CS8416 for a BNC jack. Seems like a popular mod to do on NOS DACs. There's also the two optical ports I could try. I've heard some say NOS DACs are more susceptible to jitter...other say less...others say neither is true. Some say jitter doesn't affect a NOS DAC's performance as much as an OS DAC, some say otherwise. I'm not clear where it actually falls.

No idea if any other parts of my measurements setup or methodologies are falsely portraying jitter performance, good or bad, either. But, given that the JKSPDIF performed worse than the Auzen coax in this test, I'm suspect about the JKSPDIF's true performance and curious if a better chain behind the NOS1704 would also show noticeable improvements. Oh well, I'll have to work with what I have.

Edit: Marv, did my jitter settings look similar to yours, especially the Wnd? I can re-do them if you think I could get more informative results.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2013, 06:01:35 AM by hans030390 »
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NOS1704, Metrum Quad, and Leckerton UHA-6S Mk.II DAC Comparisons
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2013, 10:35:39 AM »

I took a few hours tonight to do some listening comparisons. The scope of my "tests" and comparisons were bit limited, admittedly, and I do hope to go back with different setups and gear. I might even do a bit more later tonight/this morning. Keeping that in mind, I went for something fairly simple but consistent.

Desktop -> Auzen coax out -> DAC -> Leckerton UHA-6S Mk.II headphone amp -> modded Tascam TH-02
JRiver Media Center, 24/96, upsampling enabled

I know it would have been better to get out the HE-500, but my pair, even with HM5 pads, seems to share many of the same characteristics after mods as Marv's pair show in his measurements. It's a bit on the warmer, bassier side, but it's surprisingly capable of rendering details except where it dips around 4-5KHz. I don't mind the dip there because it really helps me with listening fatigue, but you do lose a noticeable amount of information there. I can't say how closely it matches the response after that point, though. At the very least, it seems to have been enough to make DAC differences mildly apparent. I'll get the HE-500 out sometime when it won't disturb people as much.

For now, I only tried the NOS1704, the Metrum Quad, and the Leckerton's built-in DAC. I plan on trying the SB1240, but I'd have needed to drag out the laptop for that. I think this is my first time I've sat down and really compared DACs, so take this all with a grain of salt.

The first thing I'd like to say is that the NOS1704 is noticeably noisier than the Metrum Quad. You could turn the gain and volume up all the way on the Leckerton with the Metrum as the DAC input, and it would barely pick up noise. Not so with the NOS1704. However, I could not hear the NOS1704's noise until the volume was set well above normal listening levels. I doubt this really had much or any of an impact when listening.

I believe the NOS1704 does indeed have a more syrupy (not necessarily less clear), darker sound than the Metrum. The NOS1704 sounded a more intimate, more densely packed, and less expansive than the Metrum. Instruments and vocalists generally had more of a tangible presence to them than on the Metrum. The NOS1704 seemed better at conveying dynamics and the emotion behind the music.

On the other hand, the Metrum seemed to do a better job putting space between everything. It had a lighter, more expansive, airier sound than the NOS1704. It was often easier to clearly identify and differentiate between instruments, especially fast-paced bass drum kicks during heavy, complex, dense music. Generally, it was the best at allowing me to pull out individual instruments and details.

That wasn't always the case, though. Because it had a lighter, more expansive sound than the NOS1704, some background details were actually more likely to get lost in the mix and a bit hazy despite most other things still being easier to pick out. I think the denser, more up-front nature of the NOS1704 helped bring out some of these smaller details. And while the Metrum provided more space between everything in the sound, I often found the stronger, more immediate presence brought by the NOS1704 to give a slightly more life-like presentation.

At one point in my notes, I mentioned that the Metrum sounded the most sterile of the bunch, but not fatiguing. That's just speaking relatively among these three unites alone, of course. I often noted that I thought the NOS1704 sounded the most natural with cymbals. Overall I gave the nod for clarity to the Metrum. Most times it was too close to really tell between the NOS1704 and Metrum.

When using the DAC in the Leckerton, I thought it sounded good, but it was missing something. Often times it placed itself in the middle of the two DACs sound-wise, but it had this sort of mushy quality to the sound that was hard to describe. Whenever complexity picked up in the musi c, even in softer genres, it had a tendency to present the least coherent sound of the three DACs. It did not share the separation of space and clarity from the Metrum or the sense of presence and dynamics from the NOS1704. It was as though it tried to capture the good elements of both DACs but instead mostly pulled more of their unique bad traits and mixed them together. I thought it had the least natural presentation of cymbals of the three, but otherwise noticed no oddities among all of them. At one point while listening to orchestral music, I switched to the Metrum from the Leckerton and was more easily able to hear individual instruments that were tightly packed together.

Again, I did think it sounded good and enjoyed listening to it. And, also again, take this all with a grain of salt, especially if anything I say sounds confusing or contradictory (likely falling into the realm of placebo).

I'll try to test out the SB1240 and try some other software/hardware setups. I'd love to add the Beef Roast with Uber AnalGland Upgrade in the mix for comparison purposes, given all the good things I've heard about it lately.
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Anaxilus

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Re: Audio-GD NOS-1704 DAC Measurements
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2013, 12:14:33 PM »

Thx for the impressions.

I don't know if I've ever been clear on my impressions of the M7 or not so I'll clarify something.  I think the M7 sounds like shit via USB or coax (well shit might be a strong word here).  Basically an expensive paper weight that takes up too much desktop space.  However, put a proper spec'd OR5 in front and it moves waay higher up the food chain.  Not sure how the digital input compares to the NOS1704.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2013, 01:14:25 PM by Anaxilus »
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Re: Audio-GD NOS-1704 DAC Measurements
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2013, 12:58:16 PM »

I would really like to try the OR5, but I'm not willing to spend that much money on it...yet. I would also be very curious to do jitter measurements with it. Clearly the JKSPDIF wasn't doing the NOS1704 any favors with how I had it setup, at least.

I also can't speak for how similar the M7 and NOS1704 are in terms of design and whether the coax implementation on the NOS1704 is better, the same, or worse.
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Marvey

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Re: Audio-GD NOS-1704 DAC Measurements
« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2013, 05:10:48 PM »

Does the JKSPDIFXYZABC sound better than the Auzen out - from a purely subjective sense?
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Re: Audio-GD NOS-1704 DAC Measurements
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2013, 05:18:03 PM »

With the NOS1704, I definitely think so. It seems to work better with the Metrum, but I'm in the process of posting additional measurements for that which show it performing no better probably worse than the Auzen out. I'll have to try the JK with my desktop to verify.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2013, 05:52:12 PM by hans030390 »
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Revised Measurements - Jitter and Spectrum
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2013, 06:07:36 PM »

I wanted to post some revised measurements. I better adjusted the Windows volume settings for more accurate results, and I also changed the Wnd for jitter tests. Also re-verified the oddities I was seeing with the JKSPDIF and NOS1704.

1. Re-done jitter test with Auzen out, JRMC
2. Above, but with upsampling enabled in JRMC to 24/96
3. With JKSPDIF
4. With JKSPDIF and JRMC upsamling 24/96
5. 1KHz sine spectrum from Auzen out
6. Above but with JKSPDIF
7. 100Hz sine spectrum I forgot earlier, from Auzen out

Also, I re-did the RMAA tests from the Auzen out and got the following (graphs look approx. the same):

Frequency response (from 40 Hz to 15 kHz), dB | +0.02, -0.90 | Good
Noise level, dB (A) | -98.4 | Excellent
Dynamic range, dB (A) | 98.1 | Excellent
THD, % | 0.0027 | Excellent
THD + Noise, dB (A) | -87.6 | Good
IMD + Noise, % | 0.0052 | Excellent
Stereo crosstalk, dB | -95.2 | Excellent
IMD at 10 kHz, % | 0.012 | Very good
General performance | Very good
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Marvey

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Re: Audio-GD NOS-1704 DAC Measurements
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2013, 06:15:08 PM »

Those jitter measurements don't look "right" - as with what is typically seen.


Which jitter file are you using again? The 16-bit?




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Re: Audio-GD NOS-1704 DAC Measurements
« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2013, 06:21:40 PM »

Those jitter measurements don't look "right" - as with what is typically seen.

Which jitter file are you using again? The 16-bit?

Yeah, I was wondering if my settings weren't what was normally used. I've found it hard to get good info on setting these up. It's the 24/48 JTest file. I used this same method for the new Metrum jitter measurements as well, so those might also need revised. Did the first batch of jitter tests for this look better? Let me know what you think.

Any Wnd setting I tried primarily changed the shape of the response directly around 12KHz...not sure which is best to use or what other settings I might have set incorrectly.
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