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Author Topic: Creative X-Fi HD USB SB1240 Measurements (DAC - External Loopback)  (Read 5941 times)

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Hands

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Re: Creative X-Fi HD USB SB1240 Measurements (DAC - External Loopback)
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2013, 06:27:36 AM »

However, one other thing that could be happening w the sine wave capture is that 96k is not an integer multiple of 20k. So one might get samples at different phases. I think the LCM of 96 and 20 is 480, which is 24 times 20. So about every 24 samples, things might repeat.

The sawtoothness is indeed likely the result of linear interpolation. A higher order interpolation approach (cubic or splines), or upsampling w interpolation filters to the video resolution might yield better visual results at the expense of complexity. I'm not sure, but don't think ARTA and RMAA offer these interpolation alternatives.

Ah, OK. I'll have to try something that's a multiple of 96KHz to see if that at all improves things. Might fiddle around with other settings.
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Re: Creative X-Fi HD USB SB1240 Measurements (DAC - External Loopback)
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2013, 06:56:41 AM »

It might be hard to get the phase aligned to the max amplitude. Still, I would give 12kHz and 24kHz a try and see what comes out of that.

What you showed makes sense to me though.

One thing to try in your measurements is to check the voltage levels. What I do is send a tone and adjust the knobs until I measure 1 volt (rms) or whatever level I target. Make sure the tone level is the same as the measurement level.
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Re: Creative X-Fi HD USB SB1240 Measurements (DAC - External Loopback)
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2013, 08:19:36 AM »

Yeah, that's another step I've considered, checking voltages. I'd have to get a multimeter.

It can be a real PITA to get everything matched for these tests across the DAC and ADC. Getting every test setup properly takes the vast majority of time when measuring, I've found. Depending on which mode I'm testing, setting either of the devices to 100/100 volume in Windows (only method I have for volume/gain control outside of test gain settings in ARTA) creates additional noise or distortion that really isn't going to manifest itself in proper listening conditions. I really doubt either this Creative unit or my NOS1704 DAC have 9% THD, so sometimes you gotta bump that volume slider down on both devices. (For my Auzentech Bravura card in particular, setting Windows volume to 100/100 will actually produce a "hot" signal that causes distortion and clipping on most devices.)

So, I have to find some sort of balance that gives proper levels but without falsely displaying better or worse measurements than in reality. Often times, I will test a large sampling of volume settings across devices that still match up to the same level for measurements in the end, compare results, and tend to go with whatever settings give the most consistent, repeatable, and rational values. Generally I find it works well to match the volume settings on both devices in Windows that give proper levels in measurement software. I know these methods aren't as scientific as they should be, but I do strive for getting the best, most repeatable, most consistent results I can with the methods and technology I'm using.

I think despite all these limitations, there's a lot of good, solid information that can be gathered from these measurements. Plus, I'm always willing to go back and revise my methods and measurements if I learn something new/better.  :)p7
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Re: Creative X-Fi HD USB SB1240 Measurements (DAC - External Loopback)
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2013, 10:00:01 AM »

I will probably skip on posting impulse response measurements in the future. With my lack of understanding and relatively limited hardware/software, it's hard for me to get consistent, repeatable results (i.e. I've seen NOS DACs show ringing with impulse response and OS DACs show no ringing, for example, when playing certain tests a few times back-to-back). If I get the right stuff and knowledge to produce good impulse response measurements that contain valuable information, I'll do so.

However, I am still toying around with spectrums generated from impulses, and my preliminary tests (aka I have no idea what I'm doing, so I just push da buttons and change da numbers) are showing different results from the NOS1704 and SB1240. I just have no idea if they're set up right or provide valuable information, so I'll look further into that.

I could have sworn I saw someone who did something similar with a DAC...can't find it now.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2013, 10:24:51 AM by hans030390 »
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SB1240 REW Loopback Experimental Tests
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2013, 12:28:39 PM »

xnor or anyone else knowledgeable on the subject, these loopback measurements were done with REW at 48KHz (max I could do). Are any of these tests and results informative, valuable, or valid given the context of DAC measurements? I ran the same tests with the NOS1704 as well (using SB1240 as ADC). Still open to other suggestions to try.

Apologies if the colors make it hard to read...one minute the software used one color scheme in dark mode, and the next it's using another. No idea why.
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Re: Creative X-Fi HD USB SB1240 Measurements (DAC - External Loopback)
« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2013, 06:01:25 PM »

I think the frequency response one might be useful in double checking your results with the other software. The rest might be more useful in speaker characterization.

You could also use REWs RTA spectrum analyzer to double check THD results. Unfortunately AFAIK REW cannot generate arbitrary multiple tones for IMD currently like ARTA.
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Re: Creative X-Fi HD USB SB1240 Measurements (DAC - External Loopback)
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2013, 04:01:54 PM »

Would like to post more measurements but I'm not sure they are valid, my unit is measuring weird, I'm sure I borked my ADC after amp testing without zener diodes.

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Re: Creative X-Fi HD USB SB1240 Measurements (DAC - External Loopback)
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2013, 04:12:32 PM »

I see you're using ARTA, but what steps did you take to get that measurement? I could see how mine checks out compared to yours. Also double check all your settings in software, sound device properties, etc. Make sure you got the bitz and the hertz all matched up. I have gotten weird results before that just happened to be mismatched settings and properties.
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Re: Creative X-Fi HD USB SB1240 Measurements (DAC - External Loopback)
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2013, 04:30:50 PM »

This one is done using periodic sweep, I have repeated numerous test using Steps(I had weird distortion figures -150db THD @20khz. Used the frequency response and voltage functions of my multimeter(Fluke 8060a) to check my DAC outputs for the correct voltages (which showed extended response to 30khz(did not check further)) . Also done a spectrum using the FR function and measurements in RMAA.



Impulse measurements for the lols, mine is the textbook linear phase DAC. Since my ADC is borked(I think) I doubt its valid. (Click below)



Need to take a look at my soundcard settings again but I'm at least sure my DAC has nothing wrong(or I need to get a new DAC/ADC)
« Last Edit: December 28, 2013, 04:38:05 PM by firev1 »
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Re: Creative X-Fi HD USB SB1240 Measurements (DAC - External Loopback)
« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2013, 07:10:59 PM »

Can the measurements be done at 96kHz sampling rate? For RMAA I had some problems w my 2i2 at that rate.... It would freeze the program for some reason.

Actually, your measurements seem pretty close to Hanns to me. Good low and high end extension. The upper end ripple may be due to a sharp low pass filter somewhere, and not necessarily from the DAC. I used to get it for some reason when measuring w my laptop line-in using the Wanckdose drivers.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2013, 07:30:40 PM by ultrabike »
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