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Author Topic: Metrum Acoustics Quad Measurements (NOS Mini DAC)  (Read 12357 times)

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Anaxilus

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Did you listen to this on Marv's setup? Just curious to know the chain behind it all if that wasn't what you used, and, in particular, I'm curious if there was an appreciable difference between software and upsampling methods if you happened to experiment with that. Genuinely curious because I like to experiment with it and like to see what others find. I'm not trying to imply anything one way or the other about your setup or your impressions.

No, I didn't use Marv's rig which is too forgiving for me.  I used my own test/listening rig which I am intimately familiar with.  98% of all my impressions are done the same way except when they are of a specific vendor room at an audio show (obviously I can't control that).

Denon CDP (SPDIF)>Metrum>Super7 (modded)>HD800 (modded)
PC (JRiver ASIO)>UberFrost (uber USB)>Super7 (modded)>HD800 (modded)

I didn't use SPDIF on the UberFrost as I find it noticeably inferior to it's latest USB implementation.
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If you ever get a chance to try a NOS DAC with/without software upsampling (or if you have already), I'd be curious to see if your impressions match what some others have noticed or not.
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Anaxilus

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If you ever get a chance to try a NOS DAC with/without software upsampling (or if you have already), I'd be curious to see if your impressions match what some others have noticed or not.

I very rarely use upsampling, especially for reviewing gear.  Hardware or otherwise.  I can't imagine upsampling doing anything w/ the Metrum except making it even more of what it already is which I think would be going in the wrong direction.  Could be wrong.
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I see. Well, many claim software upsampling "fixes" aspects like you noted. I've noticed some level of difference but wanted to get opinions from people here to verify.
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Anaxilus

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I see. Well, many claim software upsampling "fixes" aspects like you noted. I've noticed some level of difference but wanted to get opinions from people here to verify.

Reviewing source gear using software upsampling is like reviewing headphones using DSP and EQ.  Pointless.  Are you reviewing gear capability critically or listening for pleasure?

Having said that, IME upsampling fixes things like digititus, glare, grain and other types of effects.  I've never heard software upsampling increase fine resolution, improve air and separation.  Quite often the opposite which is something the Metrum doesn't need IMHO.  Now if the effect is the opposite w/ a NOS dac, that would be interesting and news to me.  Ultrabike has the Metrum, you could try asking him to give it a go.

As of now, my opinion about upsampling and other software conversion from original masters is if you like it, it's usually a pleasing coloration, not an accurate rendition.  I've heard the same thing from some well known folks about converting DXD PCM to DSD 'adding weight' and sounding more 'natural'.  Sorry, the samples I've heard from say someone like 2L are simply colored and more compressed sounding versus their original PCM masters.  If air and micro detail disappear after conversion, it simply cannot be more accurate.
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I'm not so much talking about critical reviewing or comparing gear on strict terms, but I think software upsampling (of which you can, in theory, choose nearly any method you'd like) coupled with a NOS DAC is a viable way to listen critically and for pleasure. It's taking a commonly used DAC function and moving it to a different part of the chain, though you have the option to opt out entirely if you so choose. In my mind, I'm hesitant to liken it to something like EQ because of this, but I can understand if you disagree. I personally like having such an expanse of options to dial in whatever works best for my ears.

And, as mentioned, I have read other subjective reports, of which I can't vouch for their credibility, containing similar impressions to yours that were later mitigated with the use of software upsampling.  I distinctly remember someone saying the Octave sounded "mushy" at 16/44.1 and without software upsampling. The potential variability of software and upsampling methods used does raise further doubts and questions (not to mention they could have bad ears or just be idiots), but the relative consistency of the reports is interesting enough that I think it warrants further research. And it's not to hard to believe, really, considering a higher sampling rate does lessen the treble drop-off in the audible range. That alone has a noticeable impact on the final sound.

Most of you here seem to be a bit more critical and honest in your evaluations, hence the reason I was particularly interested in gathering thoughts from anyone that might have also experimented with software sampling and NOS DACs. I can hear a difference with/without software upsampling, but I still have a while to go before I'd feel comfortable making definitive statements one way or the other, so I really value others' impressions as well.
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I distinctly remember someone saying the Octave sounded "mushy" at 16/44.1 and without software upsampling.

And if some of my test tracks are 24/96, 24/352 and DSD which sound the same as 16/44 on the Metrum to me, where does software upsampling fit into that theory?
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And if some of my test tracks are 24/96, 24/352 and DSD which sound the same as 16/44 on the Metrum to me, where does software upsampling fit into that theory?

Well, if that is indeed the case, I'd say that is evidence against the claims others have made, and that's the sort of information I was curious about gathering and think is valuable to all listeners/potential buyers. I think software upsampling can bring some benefits to red book music on a NOS DAC, but what I've heard is close enough it could just be placebo (perhaps minus the slight treble lift). Certainly not the dramatic change some make it out to be that will make all the difference in the world to those that don't use it.
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ultrabike

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Put together something quick to test the Metrum:

Sony PS2 (SPDIF) > Metrum > Focusrite 2i2 (Line In) > HD600

I used mostly CDs I had here and there (Eurythmics, Aerosmith, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Jon Secada, Celine Dion, and stuff). These are limited to by 16 bit / 44.1 kHz sampling rate. Might try later using my senile Xbox 360 (old enough to have the proprietary connector w SPDIF instead of HDMI).

IMO the bass and the mids were good. The treble might be rolled off. Things indeed seem relaxing. I think however that the rig revealed how noisy and crappy my Jon Secada CD sounded. Which is good, but also depressing. The Dion and Eurythmics recording did not seem to do that bad. Will put together some better recording CDs for the next round and compare to the internal DAC of the 2i2 (that's the best I have at the moment).

I did put the Line-in through the ARTA spectrum analyzer at 96 kHz sampling rate, and that revealed a lot of > 20 kHz stuff going on probably due to the NOS nature of things.


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Marvey

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I preferred the Metrum Quad with JRMC up sampling. Seemed less hazy, more clear in the bass, and slightly more detailed. I wonder if this is because the ultrasonic shit is pushed up further where the analog filter would be more effective?

Similar in some respects to DSD to PCM conversions where I prefer the most aggressive ultrasonic filters. The DSD to PCM conversions with the DSD hash intact from 24k upwards sounds similarly hazy to NOS and no software up sampling on the Quad.
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