CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS

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Author Topic: An example of what not to do here  (Read 5389 times)

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anetode

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Re: An example of what not to do here
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2013, 07:51:03 PM »

There's also a divergence in this community with regard to choosing "the One" reference headphone vs. having a selection for various moods. Purrin, LFF & Anax are pretty fixed on modding unique headphone designs to neutrality. Alternately MF & n3rdling have a whole stable of oddities. I'm somewhere in the middle. The 009 would be my end-game headphone were it not for a couple of weaknesses, though with some EQ it's just about there. But some music feels right with Ortho bass and the diffusivity of the 800 is alluring for live recordings.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 08:02:40 PM by anetode »
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LFF

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Re: An example of what not to do here
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2013, 08:45:27 PM »

There's also a divergence in this community with regard to choosing "the One" reference headphone vs. having a selection for various moods. Purrin, LFF & Anax are pretty fixed on modding unique headphone designs to neutrality. Alternately MF & n3rdling have a whole stable of oddities. I'm somewhere in the middle. The 009 would be my end-game headphone were it not for a couple of weaknesses, though with some EQ it's just about there. But some music feels right with Ortho bass and the diffusivity of the 800 is alluring for live recordings.


This is a little off. Purrin, Anax and I are NOT fixated on modding headphones to supreme neutrality. We each have a nice collection of headphones and quite often, we rotate certain headphones among each other. All three of us own relatively neutral headphones but we also have some bright ones and some dark ones in there. We enjoy different flavors at different times. The V-Moda M80 is not a neutral headphone, yet Purrin and I have given it good marks and have recommended it several times.


What I feel separated us as a general community is our intolerance for "crap" and "BS". Purrin mentioned this in another post, but that's essentially how Changstar started. We heard SOOO much positive hype regarding the LCD's and I think Purrin, Anax and I were the only ones at the time going.... p:8   facepalm . We all commented and gave our honest opinions and then Purrin showed me and explained to me how the measurements had been "tweaked" to give it a better appearance of not sucking so much. The measurements provided by Audeze simple didn't correlate with what the three of us were hearing. We all thought....wouldn't it be nice if there was a place that didn't hype BS, didn't lie and didn't provide a new "The One" FOTM every single time someone became a sponsor....hmmm.... :)p10


Even better, wouldn't it be awesome if we could use both subjective and objective impressions and mention our thoughts freely without fearing being censored by the great dictator and his SS minions.....hmmmm..... :)p10




LONG LIVE CHANGSTAR!  :)p2
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anetode

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Re: An example of what not to do here
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2013, 08:58:50 PM »

This is a little off. Purrin, Anax and I are NOT fixated on modding headphones to supreme neutrality. We each have a nice collection of headphones and quite often, we rotate certain headphones among each other. All three of us own relatively neutral headphones but we also have some bright ones and some dark ones in there. We enjoy different flavors at different times. The V-Moda M80 is not a neutral headphone, yet Purrin and I have given it good marks and have recommended it several times.

An oversimplification and false dichotomy on my part, then. Perhaps the point was to bring up the common pirate practice of working towards perfecting a neutral headphone, one that would generally suit any sort of music. (To correct and expand on my previous comment:) These projects function alongside different "flavored" headphones. This is counter to the Head-Fi practice of picking flavored headphones and insisting that they become the new model of neutrality, made all the more amusing by the plurality of these idolized flavors and the clamor of their champions.

It's also worth noting that the majority of changstar members are versed in transposing their expectation of headphone performance to fit musical context. Bottom line is that the criticism posed by the OP is bullshit.
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Marvey

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Re: An example of what not to do here
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2013, 09:47:10 PM »

There are three reasons why I don't explicitly refer to music or recordings in my subjective impressions:
  • The point about me having a preference for headphones within certain bounds of normalcy (if not neutrality) is a valid. I tend to gravitate toward gear which can get me by most recordings without either the pain of treble spikes or the boredom of being too forgiving. I eschew the technique used by some HF reviewers to rate gear based on a list of recordings with a W/L tally. Take this post on the Vali for example: http://www.head-fi.org/t/685162/new-vali-schiit-amp/540#post_9930077. Absolutely nothing wrong with it, but I just don't think that way. I feel that this method is excessive since one only needs to state that the Vali can sound a bit softer and slower on the bass (which that person's impressions with various tracks would seem to suggest.) It comes down to me not believing that a transducer should be the element that enhances certain recordings (through excessive colouration) at the expense of others (marginal recordings which react badly to a specific transducers' colour). Strat put it best: "When I was beginning to get into headphones, I thought the HD600s sounded nice but a little boring. It was only when I began to understand that the magic has to come from the music itself (when well recorded and mixed) and is not something that a coloured headphone should add, I began to appreciate them. I have kept them in high regard since then."
  • My subjective impressions are not based on listening to test tones. They are based on listening to a selection of recordings, some excellently mastered, others of marginal quality. This selection of tracks does slowly change over time, but much of it stays constant. So inherently, music is part of the process, although it's never explicitly mentioned. I've indicated the tracks I've used at various times, in the DAC comparison worksheet, and also in the recordings section of this website. The point is that gear that renders snares painfully with one decent recording will probably do the same with another. Gear that makes baritone voices sound thin will probably also make the body of a cello sound thin. It's really not that hard for folks familiar with the Carnegie Chart: http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/main_display.htm
  • While music is obviously the end part of the equation, there is a desire on my part to separate the gear from the music. There are three times I can clearly remember being very moved by music (and in all those incidents - it had absolutely nothing to do with the gear): Midori playing a Dvorak piece - on the stock radio in my car; Perlman and Yoyo - in a youtube video from my laptop speakers; and Taylor Swift Best Day on my current speaker rig. The gear is simply the vehicle for the transmission of music. I prefer to comment on the technicalities of such gear rather than how it affects the soul of specific recordings. Because the next day, I may feel much differently about the "soul" of the same recordings.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 10:02:17 PM by purrin »
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Marvey

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Re: An example of what not to do here
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2013, 10:24:14 PM »

P.S.
As far as people being made an example of, being forced to publicly walk the plank  , etc., do take the pirate theme seriously. Read up on pirates of yore, how they governed themselves, how they ran things on a ship. Pirates back then were not a bunch of psychopaths who believed in creating chaos of the sake of it, or that the mightiest and meanest ruled over all. Running forums or ships require a certain level of discipline. Idiotic sailors who threaten smooth sealing can be expected to receive a public flogging or thrown overboard. Make no mistake, this is not HF where anyone is free to blurt out whatever as long as it's followed by a smiley face.

That being said, the vast majority of people who have signed up and posted have never been a problem. I mean you have to really try to be dumb. And "what do you guys think about $75 headphone X" is NOT a dumb question.
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LFF

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Re: An example of what not to do here
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2013, 10:26:36 PM »

P.S.
As far as people being made an example of, being forced to publicly walk the plank  , etc., do take the pirate theme seriously. Read up on pirates of yore, how they governed themselves, how they ran things on a ship. Pirates back then were not a bunch of psychopaths who believed in creating chaos of the sake of it, or that the mightiest and meanest ruled over all. Running forums or ships require a certain level of discipline. Idiotic sailors who threaten smooth sealing can be expected to receive a public flogging or thrown overboard. Make no mistake, this is not HF where anyone is free to blurt out whatever as long as it's followed by a smiley face.

That being said, the vast majority of people who have signed up and posted have never been a problem. I mean you have to really try to be dumb.


Indeed.
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Stapsy

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Re: An example of what not to do here
« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2013, 01:27:42 AM »

Well said Purrin.  It was always very clear to me that the end goal of this forum is musical enjoyment, not measurements and technical data.  I think that leaving out musical reference allows everyone to be on the same page.  I am not familiar with most of the tracks that I see people use for testing, therefore hearing what someone thinks about gear with a specific piece of music is not that important to me.  As you say, leaving out your impressions of different pieces of music makes your reviews more concise vs the detailed description of how you hear 15 tracks.  If you write that this headphone is bass heavy or this DAC has harsh treble I already know what you mean.

This place is what you want it to be.  I am sure many people come here for the measurements.  However there are a multitude of threads here dedicated to music and recordings, many of which have inspired albums in my collection.  I have seen a number of objectivists/boat rockers come and go in the time I have been here.  Most of them get the message that this is not what CS is about without the issure having to go any further.  On the rare occasion that they can't... 

walk the plank
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Re: An example of what not to do here
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2013, 02:33:04 AM »

Meets use the same few tracks over and over as a result, so you get all those audiophile cliches. Girls strumming guitars and small jazz ensembles are going to sound good on most stuff, after all. It's all the stuff audiophiles often say to avoid that, ironically, tests the capabilities of your gear more adequately.

We have a phrase for that: "Music that sounds good on a walkie-talkie." Someday I'm going to do custom categories on JRiver and put all the audiophile stuff in a folder called, "Well-Recorded Music You Don't Want to Listen To."

Can I nominate "James Newton Howard & Friends" for that folder?  :)p13
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Re: An example of what not to do here
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2013, 04:52:17 AM »

Marv hit the nail on the head with those 3 bullet points. Very similar to how I try think and approach things like this. Granted, this community has helped steer me more in that direction, for which I am very appreciative.
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