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Author Topic: An example of what not to do here  (Read 5389 times)

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An example of what not to do here
« on: November 09, 2013, 02:17:52 AM »

To be perfectly honest, I don't really care what Rin Choi thinks about this or that. Especially as I've never come across his talking about sound in the actual context of music. I find his discussions of all this stuff to be quite soul sapping, personally.

I'm rather indifferent toward the EX600 and EX1000, but I like the EX800ST. I also like the H3, but only when it's modded to remove the ridiculous bass Sony felt necessary to tune it to have.

The Ocharaku connection is definitely there, since it's the ex-employee responsible for the [awful] PFV-1. Really though the "Sony spirit" in this case is an antagonistic one, the one that haunted the EX700SL that I loved so much for some reason, and one that will definitely not be some peoples' cup of tea. I've been listening to their newest invention, the Donguri, which is designed to look like a pair of acorns you shove into your earholes. It even comes with a wooden acorn pendant crafted by Oak Village in their ongoing partnership with the tea house. I was especially moved when I discovered that the housings of the Donguri were made from zelkova, the same wood used on the cups of the Sony R10. Overall the Donguri has a much more natural type of sound, somewhat removed from the wholly unnatural Flat4 (or EX700SL). They're definitely carrying to torch of Sony's madder, more adventurous and inventive side these days. However their ethos is wholly different to my mind. More one of reverence for the world at large rather than a burning desire to dominate and conquer it.

I know it's en vogue and even fun to be cynical about stuff, but personally I think the portable market is in a much better state than it was a few years ago, especially compared to the full-sized headphone landscape. $100 today will get you a lot more in an in-ear monitor than it would have before, and there's just a much wider variety of different flavors and subtle variations that exist in the comparatively young in-ear market. For instance I've been trying to decide between several "neutral-ish" CIEMs like the L05QD, UERM, 4C, and NT6. After hearing them (save for the NT6), I was rather impressed by how competently tuned they were, especially compared to the world of headphones where you just don't see that sort of thing. If anything, the world of CIEMs and manufacturers pooling from the same sources reminds me more of the hobbyist speaker niche en miniature.

As for crossovers, it really depends. Sometimes they aren't executed particularly well. Other times a crossoverless design can work well, as in the case of Custom Art's dual driver model. It's all about implementation.

would have thought rin would fit right in here. music takes a back seat to measurements and technical performance from what i'm seeing.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2013, 08:07:52 PM by purrin »
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Anaxilus

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« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2013, 03:31:06 AM »

would have thought rin would fit right in here. music takes a back seat to measurements and technical performance from what i'm seeing.

Nope.  Folk here try to correlate the objective and subjective and find where any discrepancies, if any, lay.  This is not the I know everything based on a graph site and if you disagree with my measurements you are an audiophool subject to placebo.  We welcome data and contributions from those like Rin and Nwavaguy, but do not tolerate their close minded, universal and dogmatic religious pontification of their narrow minded generalizations.

Many of the founders and contributors here do have scientific, engineering, recording backgrounds or education but also have or do continue to play actual musical instruments and have wide breadths of musical tastes or knowledge of music theory.  Our posts, reviews are geared toward improving the listening experience of our music.  Not to become some sort of internet E-thorities that internet strangers can stroke to appease any latent personal insecurities.  We have a couple threads here dealing w/ music and recording recommendations.

We do not treat the ear and brain as placebo devices here.  They are reliable tools when used in proper context as long as they are properly calibrated.

I like to think we try approach data and science here as a 'specific descriptive' phenomenon.  Other sites that try to label themselves 'objective' in the wrong sense approach data and science as a 'universal prescriptive' phenomenon.  The first approach is logically valid, the second is wholly fallacious.  To me, a radical objectivist that says some $100 DAC is equal to any other based on a limited set of predefined metrics (often mislabeled 'electrical transparency') is the same as a radical subjectivist that says $2000 antivibration feet will improve the sound of your music 10x.  Same people, different religions.  Both sides have other sites they can frequent.  This isn't it. 

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« Last Edit: November 09, 2013, 03:37:04 AM by Anaxilus »
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An example of what not to do here.
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2013, 03:56:00 AM »

sorry but I gotta disagree with your "nope" there. ;) with the exception of a couple of dedicated threads, most of the posts i see here focus on the technicalities of a phone's performance and the sound it makes. they tend to lack musical context IMO. not criticising, just saying. :)
« Last Edit: November 09, 2013, 06:18:43 AM by purrin »
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Tyll Hertsens

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« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2013, 04:05:28 AM »


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I don't care who you are, that's fucking funny right there.
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« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2013, 04:35:48 AM »

You make Headcase look so fun and inviting. What you don't see is the new guy who wanders into the hot tub and gets the bukkake treatment.

As for disagreeing that we're all about objective measurements, I have to disagree with said disagreement. Just because certain individuals don't pontificate with flowery language about "the soul of music" doesn't mean they're not concerned with how music sounds to them first and foremost. If you want to see walls of text about music, you can read the things I post in my diary on head-fi (which I'll probably end up duplicating here eventually when I'm not so lazy). If you're an ABS member or higher, you can hang around the shoutbox where we're always chatting about concerts we attended and how we felt listening to certain recordings on rigs at shows or in our homes.

This is very much a community, and the threads with measurements posted are only a small part of that: it's a set of resources for people to use. The main point of the gear discussion for a lot of folks here is to recommend stuff they enjoy. Whether that enjoyment stems from their ability to reproduce music pleasurable, because they're shiny objects, or both varies from person to person. Admittedly I like my fair share of shiny objects and pretty things. However I generally state this openly. Measurements are always posted along with subjective impressions with the understanding that we have different tastes and tolerances, and we don't use measurements to feel smug about "audiophools" who spend money on expensive gear. Sure, we might bitch about the state of the industry, but that always falls back to our not finding gear we personally like to listen to ourselves. Shit, I mean Marv just bought an Abyss. I've even posted that I like the Edition 10 I owned numerous times. However we also expect people to communicate why they like a piece of gear without doing that whole "we eat what we like" Apple Jacks commercial thing. Look at the recent threads from Ultrabike, who is testing out his measurement rig and becoming more active in that area. There are posts from people saying "hey, I think you measured these wrong because that's not what I hear."

Honestly, if all you did was just look at the measurement section of the site and not really get a sense of the community behind it, I could see making the mistake of assuming we get the chubs over low distortion figures. Like I said above, not every part of the site is open to the lowest level of membership. We have to get to know you first before we promote you. Sometimes people will sign up thinking we're crazy objectivists, and that they'd fit right in with that --- these folks usually end up being ignored. We drop context clues though, and if you can figure it out you usually end up promoted.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2013, 04:57:33 AM by MuppetFace »
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My blog on head-fi: http://www.head-fi.org/f/7879/muppetface
I mostly talk about music there. Weird.

Marvey

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Re: Up Late
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2013, 04:37:27 AM »

most of the posts i see here focus on the technicalities of a phone's performance and the sound it makes. they tend to lack musical context IMO. not criticising, just saying. :)


No shit Sherlock. But you've completely missed the point / response to your Rin assertion.


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Re: Up Late
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2013, 05:18:39 AM »

geez, keep your shirt on purrin. think i understood the post well enough but it doesn't change my observation - sorry.

@ muppet - wasn't saying that this forum is all about objective measurements - not interested in having that debate, so i have to disagree with you disagreeing with me. ;) had lurked here before joining. wasn't aware of your head fi diary thread - might check it out sometime. :)
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zerodeefex

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Re: Up Late
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2013, 05:32:06 AM »

I'm going to disagree with you and insist upon the last word but I refuse to get into it. Let these smilies distract you from the fact that I posted nothing concrete to really back up my claims. ;) :) ;) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Of course, please take this with a grain of salt. IMHO, YMMV, TBD, WTFBBQ, +1  ;)
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Marvey

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Re: Up Late
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2013, 05:43:23 AM »

geez, keep your shirt on purrin. think i understood the post well enough but it doesn't change my observation - sorry.

@ muppet - wasn't saying that this forum is all about objective measurements - not interested in having that debate, so i have to disagree with you disagreeing with me. ;) had lurked here before joining. wasn't aware of your head fi diary thread - might check it out sometime. :)

Not trying to change your observation as I don't disagree with you that this site is mostly about measurements. But just politely letting you know that tactics like shifting the topic (the issue Rin) for the sake of creating additional argument (just so you can be right on at least one count) is seriously frowned around here. It's not about who is right or wrong here. The use of smiley faces a la HF styles is also frowned upon here.

So let's just make it easy because you have already wasted Anax, Muppet, Zero, and my time: You can either delete your account and continue to lurk -or- play along (that is actually contribute something rather than play word games).
« Last Edit: November 09, 2013, 05:52:37 AM by purrin »
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Re: AKG IEM K3003 Comprehensive Review
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2013, 06:47:20 AM »

never said that this site is mostly about measurements. my point was in reply to muppet's criticism of rin's approach - that his assessments of phones lack any musical context. all i was trying to say is that most of the posts i see here lack that as well coz they tend to focus on technical and measured performance. references to music and musicality are usually absent. no biggie - just something i've noticed that's all.

wasn't deliberately being provocative and am genuinely surprised by the hostile reaction. didn't try to shift my position either but i've obviously touched a nerve that I wasn't aware of. ban me if it makes you feel better - coz you got the power.



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