CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS

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Author Topic: Budget DAC with Isolated Power - Supposedly Similar to ODAC  (Read 8513 times)

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burnspbesq

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Re: Budget DAC with Isolated Power - Supposedly Similar to ODAC
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2013, 03:58:56 PM »

Dude, before you categorically dismiss all 9023-based DACs, listen to the Concero.
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kiteki

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Re: Budget DAC with Isolated Power - Supposedly Similar to ODAC
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2013, 12:37:54 PM »

Thanks for the advice.  I've spent a sizeable amount on ES9023 DAC's already, the Concero uses ES9023, the Concero HD and HP use ES9018-2M, which undoubtedly sounds better.  I haven't checked the price differences.

Perhaps the Concero sounds better than the AckoDAC AKD-23S which was the best I heard, then again I was using different floor standing speakers at that time which filled my room well, and most likely gave a better sense of it's imaging or tone, yet it still had the characteristic thinness, digital-ness, dried-out-crayonness, sterile scalpel-ness sound, which becomes evident after a while.

I don't think an ES9023 can be made to sound like an AK4396 or AK4399, which are the best rivals for Sabre chips in my book, including the ES9018.  They can pull off the natural sound of a vintage NOS and the high resolution of a modern OS chip at the same time.

To reaffirm my conclusion (I always cast a little self-doubt on these tiny differences) MHDT, a NOS-only company, decided the most natural sounding modern oversampling chip was AK4396.  I asked why not AK4399 in an email, they said it's more complicated with various filter settings.
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uncola

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Re: Budget DAC with Isolated Power - Supposedly Similar to ODAC
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2013, 12:52:33 AM »

haha funny you should recommend that weiliang designed dac based on cm6631a and cs4398, I actually have one and it's just super awful.  It's so bad that I'm 50/50 on whether I got one that uses a counterfeit opamp or something.  I'd love to send it to someone for review/analysis
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kiteki

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Re: Budget DAC with Isolated Power - Supposedly Similar to ODAC
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2013, 07:01:01 AM »

Which seller did you buy it from?  I use it as a DAC or as a USB bridge to COAX, I'm not sure what the quality of the headphone-out is like which looks more like a bonus feature.

My CM6631 / CS4398 is definitely slightly better than my Hifimediy Sabre (using both as DAC's into a speaker amp) but it's always possible you got a fake op-amp in it since this stuff comes from China I suppose? =p

In that sense the Norwegian / Swiss Hifimediy stuff is more reliable, and cheaper.
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Chris1967

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Re: Budget DAC with Isolated Power - Supposedly Similar to ODAC
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2013, 08:00:48 AM »

I have to disagree with you on the sound of the ESS9023 chipset...

The power supply is the culprit and not the chipset itself...

My Salas supplied ODAC  ( http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,383.0.html ) sounds excellent (yet slightly inferior) even compared to a twisted pair ESS9018 (plus supplies)...

My friend Vasilis design, the "Mambo Dac" http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SABRE-HI-END-DAC-24bit-192khz-with-ES9023-WM8804-and-i2s-input-diy-DAC-/271259596887?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Amplifiers&hash=item3f2854f857

as you can see, it has a very sofisticated power supply, trace design etc...

It sounds superb, and i can wholeheartedly recommend it
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kiteki

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Re: Budget DAC with Isolated Power - Supposedly Similar to ODAC
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2013, 12:55:00 PM »

All ES9023 I've used use USB power, while my ES9018 has dual transformers (separate for digital and analogue), so you could very well be right.

The ES9018 chip is like eight DAC's in parallel though, which results in higher resolution.
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Hroðulf

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Re: Budget DAC with Isolated Power - Supposedly Similar to ODAC
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2013, 02:20:00 PM »

The ES9018 chip is like eight DAC's in parallel though, which results in higher resolution.

Well, it should in theory provide lower error energy, which might or might not equal higher resolution.

ES9018 is extremely fiddly to properly implement mainly due to high current output you get by paralleling those eight DAC's. Also the PSU configuration must be top notch to make the best out of it.
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funkmeister

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Re: Budget DAC with Isolated Power - Supposedly Similar to ODAC
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2013, 11:55:13 AM »

I almost croaked on the previous page when reading the recommendation for a C-Media DAC. I have never found any C-Media stuff to be anything more than acceptable. I sure have had a lot of them, too (Sound Blasters and such). I've also never had one that didn't have DC offset, though that might not be the DAC's fault.
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MisterRogers

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Re: Budget DAC with Isolated Power - Supposedly Similar to ODAC
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2013, 05:06:37 PM »

I second comments about the performance of the 9023; or AK, or most modern 'budget' (read not 9018) dac chips; Dedicated, quality power can really get the most out of them. I just built a little slimline dac with the AK4396, and an XMOS USB receiver (>= 384 PCM/64/128 DSD). It isolates and reclocks the signal before feeding it to the DAC. I've powered both the USB and reclocker/DAC with dedicated Salas shunts. Then, I added a little filter/buffer well known over at diyaudio (JG Filter/Buffer), and just finished casing up a little DAC that costs less than $400, is small, handles PCM/DSD, and outperforms a stock Buffalo III (stock shunts/IV(s)/PS(s)).

Clean, correct power is I believe even more critical for digital circuits.
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Elysian

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Re: Budget DAC with Isolated Power - Supposedly Similar to ODAC
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2013, 10:31:12 PM »

Is there any chance you could share some pictures of your latest creation, MisterRogers? Would love to see how it all came together!

I wish there were more DIY balanced DAC options out there that are cheaper than the Buffalo.
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