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Author Topic: Chassis, cases, and stuff... Box it up!  (Read 4260 times)

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OJneg

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Re: Chassis, cases, and stuff... Box it up!
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2013, 03:51:22 AM »

That's certainly overkill for this application. This amp stays cool without the top on. I can't even feel heat emanating from the any components unless I touch the heatsinks directly. I don't need convection here, just need to make it a bit more open air. Think Magni, not Asgard.
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Armaegis

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Re: Chassis, cases, and stuff... Box it up!
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2013, 04:08:31 AM »

We know that hot air rises and causes convection, but the reality of it is that on a small scale the air hardly moves at all.

A metal chassis is highly conductive however. So heat trapped inside is transferred to the chassis, spread across the entire body, and transferred to the outside air. The bigger the surface area, the more effective this transfer. Heatsinks basically add surface area and extend how far conduction takes heat away before air will convect it off the body (ugh that was a poorly structure sentence, whatever I'm sleepy you know what I mean).

So the weird thing about vents is that you are now removing surface area for conduction, and if the air isn't moving then you've replaced conductive metal with insulative air... which will actually increase your internal temperature. Granted, this all hinges utterly on whether or not you can establish sufficient airflow inside.

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Do you think there may be an acoustic leak from the jack hole? ~Tyll Hertsens

Not sure if I like stuffing one hole or both holes. Tending toward one hole since both holes seems kinda ghey ~Purrin

Anaxilus.

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Re: Chassis, cases, and stuff... Box it up!
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2013, 04:45:12 AM »

That's certainly overkill for this application. This amp stays cool without the top on. I can't even feel heat emanating from the any components unless I touch the heatsinks directly. I don't need convection here, just need to make it a bit more open air. Think Magni, not Asgard.

If you don't need convection, then why drill holes?  Even w/o holes you are getting convection which drives the heat transfer of a heat sink.  The question is how to best maximize the effect.  Or if it's not that big a deal and you just want o play around go for it.  Just drilling a few holes on top will likely make it worse as Armaegis said.

The question of loss of surface area w/ holes is a good one w/o proper design as a heat sink.  Size is largely irrelevant to the effects of convection, it's a matter of temperature and airflow, not size.  If you take the chassis apart and mount it on a board open face, you'll get much better convection.  Likewise, if you employ strategic holes along with fins that already have lots of surface area, the loss from holes will be minimal compared to the gain in air movement.  If you really want to get it right, one has to design the chassis as a proper convection/transfer system.  People forget that even though it is a gas, for aerodynamic purposes, air behaves as a fluid so fluidynamics are just as relevant.  Just popping a few holes in the top is akin to pouring out a 1 gallon jug of water without opening a second pressure relief valve.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSCMbZ-UAcY

Hot air creates a low pressure environment (essentially like a pseudo vacuum that wants to filled/replaced), but it does very little work without the higher pressure of cool air driving to take its place and fill the void.  It's just like weather, except the chassis is acting like a mountain range separating the climes from interacting.  That's how you get stagnation and potential for worse performance than no holes at all.

   
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Hroðulf

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Re: Chassis, cases, and stuff... Box it up!
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2013, 04:47:34 AM »

How hot are we actually talking about? How long can you keep a finger on the heatsinks when you've just opened the top?

In my opinion the vent thingy if done correctly (you need an intake as well) may not help that much for lowering the temps on the transistors as it may help other parts to not get hot. That is - air will slowly flow to the exit holes and not spread around the whole chassis.

But as I said - what temps are we actually talking about? Anything below 50-60°C is okayish in my book.
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Anaxilus.

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Re: Chassis, cases, and stuff... Box it up!
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2013, 04:49:58 AM »

How hot are we actually talking about? How long can you keep a finger on the heatsinks when you've just opened the top?

In my opinion the vent thingy if done correctly (you need an intake as well) may not help that much for lowering the temps on the transistors as it may help other parts to not get hot. That is - air will slowly flow to the exit holes and not spread around the whole chassis.

But as I said - what temps are we actually talking about? Anything below 50-60°C is okayish in my book.

Exactly, to be done right you need a well thought out design for the whole system.  Always think about the system as a whole and everything in it relative to each other.
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OJneg

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Re: Chassis, cases, and stuff... Box it up!
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2013, 06:01:32 AM »

I can put my finger flat on the side of the heatsink indefinitely without pulling away. It's uncomfortable but not painful. At the 35mA bias at least.

I doubt the chassis would actually be hotter with these holes drilled. The area being removed would be miniscule in relation to the total surface area.

I'll say it again, with the top off this amp is quite cool. The air "inside" the chassis is not noticeably warmer than the ambient. The side walls are only marginally warmer than any other piece of aluminum sitting on my desk. In this scenario the amp seems to equalize to the ambient temperature very well.

Which makes me confused when you guys say that removing surface area will make it heat up. Keep in mind, there are no components or heatsinks coupled to the chassis. They're all just sitting inside coupled to their individual heatsinks. Removing the top is removing a ton of surface area and that's obviously not making it warmer. So I think the better question is, at what point does drilling enough holes (removing surface area) turn this into an open system (top off)? Putting the top on flush (no slits) seems to make this the chassis warmer as well. So I'm questioning whether more ventilation is really a bad thing.
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Hroðulf

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Re: Chassis, cases, and stuff... Box it up!
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2013, 07:56:50 AM »

As I've said - north of 60 degrees Celsius is where you should worry. I think the holes won't change much thermodynamically, yet on the long run you might run into a dust problem.
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Armaegis

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Re: Chassis, cases, and stuff... Box it up!
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2013, 02:14:57 PM »

more science...

Removing the entire top allows free convection because there's nothing in the way. The hot air can rise and cool air can swoop in from the surroundings. The random air currents in the room are probably stronger than that due to the heat anyways.

With the top on but holes drilled, the effective area of the holes is actually much smaller than what you measure due to the boundary layer effect which slows down airflow as it travels around or across a surface. Also, if you don't have holes for cool air entry then the chassis acts like a vacuum to hold the hot air in.
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Do you think there may be an acoustic leak from the jack hole? ~Tyll Hertsens

Not sure if I like stuffing one hole or both holes. Tending toward one hole since both holes seems kinda ghey ~Purrin

OJneg

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Re: Chassis, cases, and stuff... Box it up!
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2013, 04:34:24 PM »

That makes sense.

I could try to work around and drill some intake holes in the bottom but since it's already in a completed state it would be a PITA. Since RudeWolf mentioned it, I think the dust is more likely to limit this amp's life than heat.  I'd leave the top off if it wasn't for the exposed mains wiring TBH.

Changing subjects, what would be the easiest way to get my hands on an acrylic top plate?
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shipsupt

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Re: Chassis, cases, and stuff... Box it up!
« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2013, 07:55:37 PM »

Are you in the US?  If so, you can spec one with Tap Plastics.  Easy.

http://www.tapplastics.com
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Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
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