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Author Topic: Advanced Crossfeed DSP  (Read 8187 times)

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AstralStorm

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Re: Advanced Crossfeed DSP
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2013, 08:50:07 AM »

Here's the new version with a changed function for mid-side mapping.
Now it doesn't make inverted tracks sound like they're in a barrel.
The soundstage has a more correct shape as well.

Not validated for linearity, but should be, as the equalization and delays are unchanged.

You will have to adjust the Center Focus control up. The default is now 50, but I personally like 80 more.
I will add a GTK+ (for Windows) UI soon enough for all those waiting with baited breath.
Center Focus == 1 is broken, working on it.

Waiting for comments on this version.

Theme song is now: Magnus "SoulEye" PĂ„lsson - [PPPPPP] 02 - presenting vvvvvv
« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 09:22:06 AM by AstralStorm »
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AstralStorm

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Re: Advanced Crossfeed DSP
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2013, 11:01:28 AM »

Another edition with a new control called Directionality, which kinda governs how much the speakers are toed in and spread. High values will turn the speakers almost into headphones. Zero is almost the old behavior with the inverse phase correction.

It's not really percent, but I forgot to change it to "exponent". I have to put an antilog there to make it linear.
This equation emulates the rotation of the speakers over a half-circle very well.

The mid and side equations are fixed to not "clip" - it was actually dropouts, not clipping.

Sounds much more like an incremental improvement over the previous one. Mainly much less 3-blob effect and no "barrel" sound on inverted phase tracks.

Dedicated to sucky mixes like this one: Megadeth - [Peace Sells...But Who's Buying? (Remastered) #11] Peace Sells (Randy Burns Mix)
And also good hard panned music like this: Clutch - [Jam Room #10] Release the Kraken

EDIT: Updated defaults.

A different setup simulating more of a near field monitor feel, would be like on the attached pic. Highly recommended, I'm considering switching the default to this.

The next "preset" simulates an anechoic chamber. Extremely analytic, but will work very well after adding some reverb. Also preserves almost all bass slam. (Updated cutoff frequency. Was too low, which made certain guitars fly off the scene.)
« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 03:19:30 PM by AstralStorm »
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AstralStorm

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Re: Advanced Crossfeed DSP
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2013, 05:25:16 PM »

Bugfix release: messed up the now non-symmetric mid function for the right channel inverted sound. Hard to hear, but fixed now.
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AstralStorm

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Re: Advanced Crossfeed DSP
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2013, 11:29:10 PM »

Comments: the anechoic preset sounds (spatially) like very near field speakers, not just anechoic chamber. Very similar spatially to my local desktop 70 W RMS Unitra Tonsil Space '86 non-bass reflex 3-ways, 60 degrees spread, 1.25m from center of head. In fact, has better subbass on these Sony MH1 IEMs (but worse highs).
That without eq; I don't have the eq curve on me for the modded version. They're not perfectly linear of course, just reasonably neutral with subbass boost.

The speakers start to roll at 60 Hz (-3 dB), but extension up is impeccable and neutrality is top notch, within 2 dB, no wide peaks or combing. Could be improved further by polyfill replacement and fixing the old suspension, which worsens bass THD somewhat I bet. Very fast and controlled sound, like many closed box designs.
They look like this: http://archiwumallegro.pl/unikat_czarne_unitra_tonsil_space_86_oryginal-1023345693.html

Superb polyamide tweeters. Mids are good, bass is decent. My pair doesn't have the domes damaged, but instead the woofer suspension got worn. HDF front, plywood sides, thick LDF back. Woven fabric low density fill inside. Mine were also extra hot glue sealed.
Front cover is poo and rolls off the extension up - it is also rather unnecessary, unless you have small kids around. I've been guilty of putting my fingers once or twice into the domes - they're stiff polyamide foil. Mids and bass are heavily processed lacquered cellulose.

Crossover is 2nd order Butterworth symmetric, not sure about frequencies. As this is a late, improved cross model, I'd bet on 1.5k and 4.5k crosses. (If not, I'd fix them to this.)

Bass: Tonsil GDN 20/40/14
http://www.e-tonsil.pl/index.php?p45,gdn-20-40-14
Mids: Tonsil GDM 10/60/4
http://www.e-tonsil.pl/index.php?p63,gdm-10-60-4
Highs: Tonsil GDWK 7/50/19
http://www.e-tonsil.pl/index.php?p76,gdwk-7-50-19

All are still being made by Tonsil and used now in "mid-range" low power stage monitors.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 11:46:58 PM by AstralStorm »
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Re: Advanced Crossfeed DSP
« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2013, 10:30:52 PM »

Ok, this v3 is broken. As in, it has huge amounts of nonlinear distortion for central signals. :gross:
I cannot use a nonlinear transform in the linear signal space. I've checked out some simple polar transform and it worked quite well for moving the sound source around, with some tweaking that could do for v4. I can apply any nonlinear function in that space and the signal does not get any change of magnitude.
The problematic part is keeping mono signals linear phase.

I will rerelease v2 with a different center control scheme first, easier to understand.
Just so you know, the values for the time delay should be on the order of 140-240 us for a typical head and typical speaker angles.
I can change this to angle + head width control instead if you prefer.

The improved control scheme makes my most realistic preset sound like a high quality speaker setup in an anechoic chamber. Specifically, there's some degree of front-back confusion which is not possible to fix without introducing faux reverberation or head tracking.

One thing with v2 is that inverse phase signals do not get the center boost and will sound quieter. I'm sure this is the correct behavior - speakers also cut such inverse phase signal - but I really get reports that it cuts bass too much on some tracks - which it does like any crossfeed. Some people probably forgot how speakers sound.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2013, 10:49:47 PM by AstralStorm »
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donunus

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Re: Advanced Crossfeed DSP
« Reply #25 on: August 16, 2013, 11:02:59 AM »

so what is the best version with the most realistic sounding default setting that i can try right now? Can you give us a link?
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AstralStorm

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Re: Advanced Crossfeed DSP
« Reply #26 on: August 17, 2013, 04:44:44 PM »

New version. Still called v3, because the previous one was terrible. Feel free to ignore the old one.

Changes:
- Reverted to previous (v2) mid-side handling. Newer one was terrible with regards to nonlinear distortion.
- Added "Bypass" functionality for simple AB testing.
- New control scheme for ITD, hopefully much easier to use and understand. Uses Lord Rayleigh's spherical head approximation, but fine tuning is also available.
Tuning seems unnecessary for lower speaker spread angles.
- Changed center focus to center boost. Typical speaker setups have less than 6 dB center summing due to directionality and other imperfections. Typical pan-pots use 3 dB summing law. The defaults simulate a good setup, 4.5 dB center summing.
- New and improved defaults.

TODO:
- Maybe try polar panning instead of ITD panning?
- Maybe try to implement a distance control. Would require settings for humidity, temperature and another lowpass filter. Of course, this control would affect center sound, by design.
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happywheels

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Re: Advanced Crossfeed DSP
« Reply #27 on: August 18, 2013, 04:47:33 AM »

A suggestion for an added feature:

Could you add a left/right toggle?
You could turn off the right channel so the left is isolated for crossfeed proccesing for easier tweaking.
That way you could tweak the "left speaker" emulated and compare with a real left speaker easily.
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AstralStorm

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Re: Advanced Crossfeed DSP
« Reply #28 on: August 18, 2013, 09:40:08 PM »

I'll add a balance control, that should be more useful in case someone has a broken pair of headphones or IEMs; or has uneven seal. You could set the balance to one side only for tweaking purposes.

The next step is implementing a specialized UI. I'm considering a few options, but it'll likely be using wxWidgets for portability.
It will take a while to properly implement.
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poladise

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Re: Advanced Crossfeed DSP
« Reply #29 on: August 21, 2013, 03:04:13 PM »

Tried the latest adv_xfeed_v3. Excellent work. Best crossfeed plug I've heard, but is there any way of editing the default parameters before it loads? I use the VST adapter for foobar and it loads and applies your plugin, but cant display a GUI.
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