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Author Topic: Advanced Crossfeed DSP  (Read 8187 times)

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happywheels

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Re: Advanced Crossfeed DSP
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2013, 02:55:57 PM »

I just ran your crossfeed through a vst analyser and it revealed a smooth response up to 10khz with a grad rolloff to -10db at 20khz
B2SB has a a low pass that varies with cutoff freq, also relatively smooth
Crossfeeds such as headfit, isone and xnor's xfeed all exhibit a series of dips starting around 2~3khz.
Why are they different from b2sb and yours?
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AstralStorm

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Re: Advanced Crossfeed DSP
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2013, 06:10:55 PM »

bs2b doesn't comb, but it has one or two dips in the center signal, around the knee frequency and twice it.
The other crossfeeds use FIR filters and do not compensate for delay. The center signal is mixed with a delayed version of itself, which causes comb filtering - the same effect is used in many flangers.
Mine has the delay compensated - the "dry" signal is also delayed the right amount. This small amount of delay should not be problematic. (80 samples, half the filter order)

This crossfeed shouldn't have any high end lowpass or anything - care to show me the output of the spectrum analyzer you used?
Did you use uncorrelated noise? if that's the case then yes, you will get some lowpass due to the side signals being mixed in.
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donunus

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Re: Advanced Crossfeed DSP
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2013, 11:24:59 PM »

This plugin doesn't work with vst for some reason. I tried it with jriver
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happywheels

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Re: Advanced Crossfeed DSP
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2013, 01:16:23 AM »

This is an image of the frequency and phase responses of B2sb, Advanced crossfeed, Headfit respectively
http://i.imgur.com/Kvxtbwb.jpg?1
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AstralStorm

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Re: Advanced Crossfeed DSP
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2013, 03:28:01 AM »

Ok, that was 4th order Lagrange-interpolated fractional delay messing things up. Setting it to 5 or 3 fixes amplitude and phase.  :)p5
Also removed unnecessary fractional delay offset - I've misunderstood one of the descriptions. Only Thiran allpass-interpolated delay needs an offset, and a much larger one.
I'll release a corrected version soon, once I measure with a less clunky tool than Baudline.

According to Baudline, phase is linear as is amplitude and the measurement works, as there's an 80+ sample group delay. I get sawtooth in phase (looks more like blips) when I enable the antialiasing on input.

I'll measure using REW, as it produces nice graphs.
Edit: Attached. The measurement is correct, as shown by the IR - it looks like a Kaiser-windowed signal, which it is.
Its builtin image tool doesn't work, so screenshots it is.

Whoops, measured up to 200 Hz. Fixed!

Links:
http://www.baudline.com/index.html
http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/

dounus: Doesn't work, or doesn't have a configuration UI? Not working would be a bug either on their end or less likely here, while lack of UI is an issue on their end - a VST host should synthesize UI when none is present.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2013, 04:46:35 AM by AstralStorm »
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AstralStorm

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Re: Advanced Crossfeed DSP
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2013, 04:20:14 AM »

New version, should fix at least the frequency response, probably more. No need to tweak the settings.

More variants available on request, such as Jack Audio Connection Kit app for Windows, CoreAudio sources or v3 VST.
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happywheels

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Re: Advanced Crossfeed DSP
« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2013, 04:38:34 AM »

Thanks for that  :)p1
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firev1

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Re: Advanced Crossfeed DSP
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2013, 04:52:57 AM »

Ok, that was 4th order Lagrange-interpolated fractional delay messing things up. Setting it to 5 or 3 fixes amplitude and phase.  :)p5
Also removed unnecessary fractional delay offset - I've misunderstood one of the descriptions. Only Thiran allpass-interpolated delay needs an offset, and a much larger one.
I'll release a corrected version soon, once I measure with a less clunky tool than Baudline.

According to Baudline, phase is linear as is amplitude and the measurement works, as there's an 80+ sample group delay. I get sawtooth in phase (looks more like blips) when I enable the antialiasing on input.

I'll measure using REW, as it produces nice graphs.
Edit: Attached. The measurement is correct, as shown by the IR - it looks like a Kaiser-windowed signal, which it is.
Its builtin image tool doesn't work, so screenshots it is.

Whoops, measured up to 200 Hz. Fixed!

Links:
http://www.baudline.com/index.html
http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/

dounus: Doesn't work, or doesn't have a configuration UI? Not working would be a bug either on their end or less likely here, while lack of UI is an issue on their end - a VST host should synthesize UI when none is present.

Does not work with JRMC at all(shows a failed installation message. Need to test it in Audition, which should work.
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AstralStorm

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Re: Advanced Crossfeed DSP
« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2013, 04:58:11 AM »

Perhaps JMRC requires the plugin to have GUI. Could happen.

Pity REW doesn't have crosstalk measurements. I'll have to wing them.
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AstralStorm

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Re: Advanced Crossfeed DSP
« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2013, 04:13:30 PM »

Ok, I'll be implementing a version with a different, parabolic mid/side scheme, where if the side signals are in opposite phase or near it, they won't crossfed.

This should be the ultimate fix against the inverse phase issue - as in inverse phase signal disappearing due to cancellation. (Currently it disappears perfectly, unlike in BS2b, where it disappeared in a peaky way.)
In real speakers that doesn't happen for side signals, only the center ones.

Further improvements will involve simulating a speaker's polar response and more advanced crossfeed equalization (not a single bank), as I now have an access to a good mechanical FEM model of the head and can reduce it to a few non-linear-phase filters. (not minimum phase)
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