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Author Topic: The AMB Thread  (Read 5458 times)

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OJneg

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Re: The AMB Thread
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2013, 01:02:54 AM »

Really..well I'm not finding it harsh at all. Then again, both my 'phones are on the warmish side FWIW.

M3 looks swell, but no more headphone amps for now. Next project needs to be a speaker amp, but B24 is out of my league right now. Still parsing through the Pass designs to see which would suit me best. F2 (current source) looks like a good option I'm thinking. I could also run headphones off it I'm guessing.
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fishski13

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Re: The AMB Thread
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2013, 05:15:01 AM »

OJneg,
excellent job.  what output devices did you use?

if i may suggest, for cutting dreaded D-holes, i would use a rodsaw mounted on a hacksaw: http://www.mcmaster.com/#handsaw-blades/=nljrxr .  you can get these at any big box home improvement store.  just cut a pilot hole, thread the rodsaw through and attach to the hacksaw.  cutting straight lines and making small adjustments is super easy since rod cuts all the way around its circumference.  i use a CAD program to draw out the cut out dimensions like you did.  Scotch tape over the print out, take a decent metal straight edge/ruler and metal scribe to mark the outline.  a bastard file is your friend to get the IEC inlet to fit perfectly.  after fitting the IEC, it always a tight fit for me since my D-hole is always a little smaller and needs filing, just drill out the chassis screw holes.  no need to measure these out.
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OJneg

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Re: The AMB Thread
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2013, 04:05:07 PM »

Thanks for the heads up fish.

Used the BD139 and BD140, standard stuff.

I actually tried using a rod saw at one point, but the blade was too dull. I had pilot holes drilled at each of the four corners, and I figured as long as I kept it square with an external guide I would be fine as I moved down. It worked for the most part I guess  facepalm I think if the damn thing had a speed control I would have been fine. But it only goes at high RPM and that becomes hard to control.
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fishski13

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Re: The AMB Thread
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2013, 08:30:07 PM »

the BD139/140 should make for a perfect pairing with the Senns.  the MJE243/253 sound better with HPs like the K701.
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fishski13

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Re: The AMB Thread
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2013, 04:18:14 AM »

anybody building a M3 should forgo the decade old opamps in the Part List and go with something more modern.  the ADA4627-1BRZ, ADA4898, and OPA1611 are easy recommendations - ancillary gears and ears apply.  keeping L/R opamps the same and switching up the G channel will change the sonics as well.  i would recommend the SOIC-8 adapters from Leckerton or Brown Dog.  up the O11 V-out to get close to the max rating of the opamp you want to roll.  30-31V gives you a lot of opamps to choose from.  socket R10 and D5 in the O11 to make sure your V-out is under the max rating of the opamp. 

socket the gain resistors.  the stock 11x gain is too much for sensitive HPs, but has less NFB. 

the Par-Metal 20-series 12x12x3 is a decent chassis for the price.  i personally dislike the black anodize, but like the natural anodize and black painted chassis.  the 3" tall chassis gives you extra room for taller heat sinks and plenty of ventilation.  the stock 1.5" heat sinks are good for 150mA of quiescent current bias.  i would recommend at least 100-110mA of bias.  if going above 150mA, you may want to consider a TX with more VA like 25VA or more and taller heat sinks.  if going with a single chassis build like the 12x12x3, a custom wound shielded/encapsulated TX from SumR is cheap insurance for another $40 or so.  Richard is a total pleasure to deal with A+++ customer service.



« Last Edit: July 14, 2013, 06:55:23 PM by fishski13 »
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gurubhai

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Re: The AMB Thread
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2013, 06:30:58 AM »

@fishski13 :About your bias current recommendations, when do you measure it - At startup, 20 minutes later or after couple of hours of playing music ?
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AstralStorm

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Re: The AMB Thread
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2013, 11:20:35 AM »

In my opinion, even good opamps don't save the Mini 3, it has some weird stuff happening with timbre and noise, as if there's some mess up in the topology.
The M3 on the other hand is excellent regardless the opamp choice.
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fishski13

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Re: The AMB Thread
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2013, 12:21:33 PM »

I've bult a CK2-3 as well, but didn't like the sound at all. :( compared to the M^3 it's a bit harsh I think?
your build looks great though! should consider an M^3 ;)

the BD139/140 tend to be brighter and thinner sounding than the MJE243/253. 

@fishski13 :About your bias current recommendations, when do you measure it - At startup, 20 minutes later or after couple of hours of playing music ?

with the lid on after 30 min or so from start up.  when removing the lid to make adjustments, i wait around 15min or so.  with the MOSFET negative tempco, you may get some reduced bias over a period of hours, but just a little.  i would still make the effort to measure after a few hours though.  it just kind of depends on the ventilation.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2013, 12:32:47 PM by fishski13 »
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fishski13

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Re: The AMB Thread
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2013, 02:03:52 PM »

for the B22, i would would recommend trying higher quiescent current bias.  you may want to give yourself some more TX power headroom and go with a slightly larger VA than recommended. 

the stock quiescent current is 120-160mA.  i upped it to 225mA and felt it sounded a bit too "tooby" and diffuse with uncontrolled, sloppy bass and softened note attack - but i really liked the midrange emphasis that both good and bad tube amps are known for.  i personally prefer 190-200mA.  you may not.  those that feel the B22 to be too reserved and analytical sounding i think would find it to be much less so with more midrange presence and a more forward soundstage with a slightly higher bias.  YMMV.

for a single chassis B22, like my own, i would strongly recommend a shielded/encapsulate TX from SumR and a ground-loop breaker.  my own B22 has been through various rebuilds, board configurations, and mods over the past 5 years, but is now in a 16x12x3" black painted alodine Par-Metal Series-20 enclosure.  2 boards, single O22, 100VA encapsulated/shielded SumR TX, stock 1.5" heat sinks, and Goldpoint SA.  ample ventilation with stock heat sinks for a higher quiescent current bias.  even with a gain of 5x, it's very quiet with the 102dB/mW sensitive AT AD2000 and dead silent through the full sweep of the SA with my other HPs. 

high impedance signal runs, RCA inputs to pot and pot to board inputs, should be shielded - twisted pair with shield with shield tied to input ground on the boards.  after dicking around with numerous wanky wire over the years, i've settled on Belden.  this shielded wire is a dream to work with and what Ti Kan recommends: http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=8451_010100virtualkey56610000virtualkey566-8451-100 .  for power runs inside chassis and signal output wire i stick with 20awg like this:  https://edeskv2.belden.com/products/index.cfm?event=printPrev&pnum=8523&ut=English .  also available from Mouser.  for a 2 chassis build with an umbilical, do what TK recommends and go with a larger gauge wire for the umbilical.  even with an aluminum RFI-rejecting chassis, i've found it still pays to shield the high impedance signal runs.

the B22 doesn't like to have it's outputs shorted.  the TRS plug/jack will short a channel to ground very briefly when inserting and removing the plug.  it's best to treat it like an 18W speaker amplifier.  the O22/B22 has no current limiting circuit.  i've never had an issue, but you read that there have been some rare failures because the outputs are shorted.  i think this is largely due to people having the music cranked and/or using power hungry phones and not following the following the following practices.  it's basically a non-factor if you: turn down the volume all the way and pause the source before insertion/removal, or add a mute switch on the outputs.  the former is good practice no matter what amp you're using.  no output device whether it be MOSFET, BJT, or opamp likes to drive a dead short to ground.  also, an open-frame TRS jack allows you to adjust the pressure of the contacts by slightly bending them to tweak the force of insertion/removal to avoid slow/clumsy action that can cause a longer dead-short.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2013, 02:09:49 PM by fishski13 »
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firev1

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Re: The AMB Thread
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2013, 11:29:18 AM »

Just the S11 from yesterday, I have been really busy lately and 2 boards was all I could finish before heading back to my day job. Hope to finish up soon..... Also, I had to learn how to use the new dmm as I had returned one of the yellow Flukes I had to my school.



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